OT - Mason Gets $5 million Gift to School of Economics

[GMUgemini]

I don’t think there is actually any evidence of indoctrination at public universities, which is, again, a side issue to the research being conducted by public university professors.


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[gmubrian]

I don’t think there is actually any evidence of indoctrination at public universities, which is, again, a side issue to the research being conducted by public university professors.


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OMG. It is one thing to disagree with Pikapps beliefs, but to not see how invasive the progressive agenda is in universities is just head in the sand style denial, shows you are so extremely biased or completely oblivious. I am not a Republican or conservative nor am I a progressive, but, when I was at Mason from 88-92, I was extremely liberal leaning to the point of being progressive, having grown up in a very progressive lead house (teacher for a parent...) and being a victim of the Fairfax county school system. At the time, Mason was one of the less liberal-biased Universities, but it was still obvious to me it leaned hard left. Now that I am not progressive, but more classical liberal (libertarian) it is so much more obvious the bias that exists. Other Universities don’t even try to hide it any longer like Mason at least used to try to do.

 

[GMUgemini]

OMG. It is one thing to disagree with Pikapps beliefs, but to not see how invasive the progressive agenda is in universities is just head in the sand style denial, shows you are so extremely biased or completely oblivious. I am not a Republican or conservative nor am I a progressive, but, when I was at Mason from 88-92, I was extremely liberal leaning to the point of being progressive, having grown up in a very progressive lead house (teacher for a parent...) and being a victim of the Fairfax county school system. At the time, Mason was one of the less liberal-biased Universities, but it was still obvious to me it leaned hard left. Now that I am not progressive, but more classical liberal (libertarian) it is so much more obvious the bias that exists. Other Universities don’t even try to hide it any longer like Mason at least used to try to do.

Brian, what is the definition of indoctrination? I can tell you my first job as a professor is to make my students understand their biases and to test their assumptions against real evidence (which would be the absolute opposite of indoctrination). I do this for both my liberal and conservative students. I also understand that my department is about 95% left leaning with some very hard left members, but I also understand that not all of them believe in bringing their own politics into the classroom.

The problem right now really stems from a lack of understanding between what is a legitimate (defendable position) in a debate. Like PiKapp’s earlier example of climate change. There is a difference between questioning the efficacy of a carbon tax and denying climate change exists at all because of a vast conspiracy by scientists to cook the books because they hate coal.

And here is another problem is see happening right now. I ask my students when we are constructing arguments if the other side matters, if there are times when the other side has legitimate arguments and concerns and we should try to build consensus rather than persuade. And the vast majority of my students say yes, except my conservative students who say the other side doesn’t matter and it’s their job to destroy them (and I make a distinction between right leaning and conservative here).

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[GMUgemini]

Oh, I should also say what a student considers conservative and liberal is pretty fluid in a diverse classroom. I teach in Arizona, so I get most of my students from either Arizona and Utah or California and international (mainly China and the Middle East). So inside any given classroom, what is defined as conservative and liberal can be vastly different than how we would normally define it.

All of this, again, is not the same thing as making sure our professors aren’t being bought for influence. Academic independence is important no matter what the ideology.


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[Pikapppatri8]

Brian, what is the definition of indoctrination? I can tell you my first job as a professor is to make my students understand their biases and to test their assumptions against real evidence (which would be the absolute opposite of indoctrination). I do this for both my liberal and conservative students. I also understand that my department is about 95% left leaning with some very hard left members, but I also understand that not all of them believe in bringing their own politics into the classroom.

The problem right now really stems from a lack of understanding between what is a legitimate (defendable position) in a debate. Like PiKapp’s earlier example of climate change. There is a difference between questioning the efficacy of a carbon tax and denying climate change exists at all because of a vast conspiracy by scientists to cook the books because they hate coal.

And here is another problem is see happening right now. I ask my students when we are constructing arguments if the other side matters, if there are times when the other side has legitimate arguments and concerns and we should try to build consensus rather than persuade. And the vast majority of my students say yes, except my conservative students who say the other side doesn’t matter and it’s their job to destroy them (and I make a distinction between right leaning and conservative here).

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FMUGemini I am sure you are being sincere but I have to call out a couple statement made in your post.

One - there is nothing wrong about highlighting the manipulation and manufacturing of data to support the claim of global warming (man made) because it had happened. 11 Times recorded by newspapers and internal IG organizations where it has happened. That’s a fact not a conspiracy theory

I also have to call BS in your statement where Your conservative students are the ones who don’t want to debate. Facts are the bias in universities are almost entirely
Liberal.

Recent case in a Catholic university in a Christian Prinicples course she argued for the case for two genders. Instead of a debate she was removed from the course. It took a call from lawyers to get her reinstiated in the class.

In our own beloved Mason it was a left wing professor that said Trump voters deserved violence instead of debate and had to get fired to calm the firestorm.

So I am very interested in your statement that flies in the face of over one hundred reported on cases of the reverse in the media.


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[Jack Strop]

No --- I made a statement about left wing indoctrination in US universities (which is far far far more prevalent then "right wing indoctrination" -- creating left wing drones divorced from reality. I did not say you - - once again you project but this time on yourself. And you are using that to make a false claim about me.

Now - I stand by my statement about the creation of left wing drones because look at the universities today. If you happen not to be liberal -- you cannot have free speech - you are attacked violently , threatened and university administrations are blackmailed into succumbing to the screaming violent mobs of the left. Please see video and news reports at any college in NY, California, Colorado, and even in places like North Carolina. Debate has been reduced to screaming matches (almost all the screaming coming from the left) and if you dare make even a minor dissenting voice on the smallest of issues - the students of today label it "hate speech" to deligitimze you and take away your right to speak. Liberals of an older vintage are even claiming its getting dangerous because modern left wingers don't even discuss fact or challenge ideas with alternative ideas - they just scream and threaten. When liberals from the 1960's say that --- I am comfortable my assessment is closer to being accurate than not.


Now you are probably closer to my vintage in age than today's students - hence I did not make this claim about you. So you are wrong.

You are cunning enough to know that when your opponent holds a straight flush that it is best to fold. Good play, sir!

But then you had to qualify your action and attempt to save face by being ugly and state that I am "wrong". Why? You can't accept that you lost that hand? You couldn't move on without that last little jab? This is what I find so sad about you. You have so much, more than most people by far, but yet you're so insecure.

I say this not to taunt or disparage, but to help you emerge from your twisting personal vortex. I hope that maybe, just maybe, that you see the vanity and ignorance in fomenting baseless and oft-times vicious stereotypes. I sense from your response above that it will prove to be a tough habit to break. The sooner you see beyond your stereotyping and respect all people and their points of view then I think you'll find that people will respect yours, and magically your insecurity will melt away. Try it. I think you will find that it suits you. Good luck!

 

[Pikapppatri8]

You are cunning enough to know that when your opponent holds a straight flush that it is best to fold. Good play, sir!

But then you had to qualify your action and attempt to save face by being ugly and state that I am "wrong". Why? You can't accept that you lost that hand? You couldn't move on without that last little jab? This is what I find so sad about you. You have so much, more than most people by far, but yet you're so insecure.

I say this not to taunt or disparage, but to help you emerge from your twisting personal vortex. I hope that maybe, just maybe, that you see the vanity and ignorance in fomenting baseless and oft-times vicious stereotypes. I sense from your response above that it will prove to be a tough habit to break. The sooner you see beyond your stereotyping and respect all people and their points of view then I think you'll find that people will respect yours, and magically your insecurity will melt away. Try it. I think you will find that it suits you. Good luck!

Umm once you again you utterly misunderstand me -- you position is not a straight flush - I called you out on multiple inaccuracies - including your claim I called you a drooling left wing nut.

But my positions are rock solid - because you see _- I used to be a progressive democrat -- until I belatedly reached the age of reason. Hence I know your arguments almost as good as you do - the only difference is I determined them to be absolutely incorrect.

 

[Jack Strop]

Umm once you again you utterly misunderstand me -- you position is not a straight flush - I called you out on multiple inaccuracies - including your claim I called you a drooling left wing nut.

But my positions are rock solid - because you see _- I used to be a progressive democrat -- until I belatedly reached the age of reason. Hence I know your arguments almost as good as you do - the only difference is I determined them to be absolutely incorrect.

Good luck!

 

[Jack Strop]

I don’t think there is actually any evidence of indoctrination at public universities, which is, again, a side issue to the research being conducted by public university professors.

We'll, yes and no. Evidence of political indoctrination? No.

However, there most certainly is indoctrination to "liberal thinking" (for lack of a better term). The definition of a university is to engage in the greater understanding of human interests. Students are indoctrinated to the university principal of opening one's mind to new ideas. So, yes, on a certain scale, it exists.

This indoctrination confuses or worries conservatives. Universities have always been accused of being liberal bastions (i.e. haven's for new ideas and progressive thinking *gasp*). However, conservatives, by definition, are wary of and threatened by new ideas. Therefore, this conflict is bound to exist in perpetuity.

I'm very happy that such a level of "liberal thought" indoctrination exists, otherwise, the vast majority of us would still be toiling in a feudal system, slavery, or worse.

 

[coachcouch]

where vurbel

 

[Pikapppatri8]

This indoctrination confuses or worries conservatives. Universities have always been accused of being liberal bastions (i.e. haven's for new ideas and progressive thinking *gasp*). However, conservatives, by definition, are wary of and threatened by new ideas. Therefore, this conflict is bound to exist in perpetuity.

You betray your age - in the 60s and 70s the left complained about the conservative bias at universities.

I wouldn't be even worried about bias - because using facts and logic liberal bias can be easily defeated and sanitized. The problem is once the left got control of academia - their lust for freedom of expression and thought is being stamped out by the powers of the administration.

Try disagreeing with the drooling mobs that constitute liberal arts students today and you will get hit in the head with bike locks from behind (sorry that was actually a university professor) - your property stolen or vandalized and attacked as a .... wait for it.... NAZI!

 

[Pikapppatri8]

where vurbel

I actually have missed Vurbel.

 

[Yossarian]

This is what Jollay did to this thread with his first post. Excellent work, good sir.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oSPPxKxy3Y0

 

[Pikapppatri8]

This is what Jollay did to this thread with his first post. Excellent work, good sir.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oSPPxKxy3Y0

Jollay is an artist - no doubt about it.

 

[GMUgemini]

Jollay is an artist - no doubt about it.

If ou consider toilet humor artistry. He’s “almost” as good as Seth McFarlane. Almost.

I rate most of Jollay’s stuff around Pepe the Frog meme level.


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[GMUgemini]

You betray your age - in the 60s and 70s the left complained about the conservative bias at universities.

I wouldn't be even worried about bias - because using facts and logic liberal bias can be easily defeated and sanitized. The problem is once the left got control of academia - their lust for freedom of expression and thought is being stamped out by the powers of the administration.

Try disagreeing with the drooling mobs that constitute liberal arts students today and you will get hit in the head with bike locks from behind (sorry that was actually a university professor) - your property stolen or vandalized and attacked as a .... wait for it.... NAZI!

The real problem is both sides have turned every issue into an identity/culture issue and so an attack on the position is an attack on the identity of the position holder. We also can’t ignore the fact that conservative/liberal issues tend to literally be about identity and culture these days.


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[Pikapppatri8]

The real problem is both sides have turned every issue into an identity/culture issue and so an attack on the position is an attack on the identity of the position holder. We also can’t ignore the fact that conservative/liberal issues tend to literally be about identity and culture these days.


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And the tying of everything to "identity" is the fault of the left. Keep in mind its the left that says math is a construct of white privilege. It is the left who said meritocracy is a racist "ethnocentrism" concept.

I think the biggest issue and danger is the left --- and exclusively the left --- is not interested in debate they are the one's attacking conservatives or those who don't agree with all of the current left wing memes/ The stab people at a Trump or conservative rally that was peaceful until they show up. Professors attack students who dare raise a question they don't like.

It has been 30 years of Political Correctness and the left tying everything to identify politics. I hope the left can get their act together and join back to civil debate.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

If ou consider toilet humor artistry. He’s “almost” as good as Seth McFarlane. Almost.


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Even toilet humor -- had their Rembrandt's and Michealengo.

 

[GMUgemini]

And the tying of everything to "identity" is the fault of the left. Keep in mind its the left that says math is a construct of white privilege. It is the left who said meritocracy is a racist "ethnocentrism" concept.

I think the biggest issue and danger is the left --- and exclusively the left --- is not interested in debate they are the one's attacking conservatives or those who don't agree with all of the current left wing memes/ The stab people at a Trump or conservative rally that was peaceful until they show up. Professors attack students who dare raise a question they don't like.

It has been 30 years of Political Correctness and the left tying everything to identify politics. I hope the left can get their act together and join back to civil debate.

Both sides are guilty of it — Evangelical right, NRA for example are two groups on the right who turn everything into identity politics. Now you’ve got the white nationalist groups trying to “take back the country” of which congressman like Peter King appear to be adherents of.

Don’t be blind to what’s going on in your side of the aisle PiKapp.


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[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

If ou consider toilet humor artistry. He’s “almost” as good as Seth McFarlane. Almost.

I rate most of Jollay’s stuff around Pepe the Frog meme level.


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If only I knew or cared what a Pepe the Frog meme was. Then I could be insulted or feel complimented as I felt appropriate.

I certainly don't rate the comic stylings of GMUgemini as anything I'd buy tickets to, that's for sure. Of all the historical cool threads since caazone I can't recall a single one I associate you with.

You better step off, son, or you'll find yourself going the way of ACW. Raped and without bus fare.