Fire Dave Paulsen / Hire Tony Skinn

[gmujim92]

Something to look into and think about for your perspective and everyone else’s.

I was informed from a friend of mine last night that Pat Chambers at Penn State is on year 10 without an NCAA/NIT appearance and has been mostly mediocre.

Now keep in mind

1) Football school so basketball has little to no expectations
2) Big Ten is a very tough league basketball wise to rebuild in
3) He too probably had to rebuild pipelines of recruits much like Paulsen did (Chambers recruits Philly really well)
4) Time is ticking for him too, but his bosses have stuck with him. Too long? Maybe.

I just found it interesting because I too was searching for an example of somewhere a coach getting a lot of time without making the NIT/NCAA and found one oddly enough. Just something to take a look at and for all of us to discuss.

(By no means am I saying “Dave should stay! We should be happy! Yay mediocrity!” Or anything like this, its merely a “hey I thought this was interesting and wanted to share”)

Edit: I was actually wrong. He made the CBI one year and then won the NIT one year.

CBI year 3. NIT year 7.

There aren’t more examples because fans and administrators get impatient and coaches get fired before they get any payoff from years of program-building.

 

[mkaufman1]

There aren’t more examples because fans and administrators get impatient and coaches get fired before they get any payoff from years of program-building.

I was surprised I even found 1 example.

 

[sleeperpick]

Mark Schmidt took 5 years to make the tournament and wasn’t above .500 in conference for the first four years (22-41 was his record for his first four seasons at St. Bonaventure).

this has been used 75 damn times over and over by the Paulsen apologists... He had to recruit to Olean, NY.... and they were like bottom 50 D1 programs before and he arrived. but carry on

 

[Pablo]

There aren’t more examples because fans and administrators get impatient and coaches get fired before they get any payoff from years of program-building.

Jim,

You may be right about Paulsen - perhaps the Patriots will make the NCAA tourney next season (particularly if AJ and a healthy Kier returns). But, let's be honest, you were not excited about the hiring of Paulsen:

"Also, can anyone honestly say that they think Dave Paulsen will ever be an upper-echelon A-10 coach?

No offense to Paulsen. If he is the new coach, I'll give him a chance like everyone else, but this does feel like a CAA hire.

May as well make a run at Bill Coen if we're going in that direction."
gmujim92, Mar 30, 2015

 

[sleeperpick]

Jim,

You may be right about Paulsen - perhaps the Patriots will make the NCAA tourney next season (particularly if AJ and a healthy Kier returns). But, let's be honest, you were not excited about the hiring of Paulsen:

"Also, can anyone honestly say that they think Dave Paulsen will ever be an upper-echelon A-10 coach?

No offense to Paulsen. If he is the new coach, I'll give him a chance like everyone else, but this does feel like a CAA hire.

May as well make a run at Bill Coen if we're going in that direction."
gmujim92, Mar 30, 2015

only thing he was wrong about was CAA level hire.. it is definitely a Patriot League hire

 

[Walter]

New President likely named by end of March.

https://gmufourthestate.com/2020/02/03/masons-presidential-search-continues/

 

[Five Two]

New President likely named by end of March.

https://gmufourthestate.com/2020/02/03/masons-presidential-search-continues/

Looks to be sooner that that:
"Davis expressed that they hope to announce a new university president before March". Thats three weeks. We'll see

 

[gmujim92]

Jim,

You may be right about Paulsen - perhaps the Patriots will make the NCAA tourney next season (particularly if AJ and a healthy Kier returns). But, let's be honest, you were not excited about the hiring of Paulsen:

"Also, can anyone honestly say that they think Dave Paulsen will ever be an upper-echelon A-10 coach?

No offense to Paulsen. If he is the new coach, I'll give him a chance like everyone else, but this does feel like a CAA hire.

May as well make a run at Bill Coen if we're going in that direction."
gmujim92, Mar 30, 2015

I will stand by the statement that Paulsen was hired on the cheap and I wasn’t thrilled about that. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s done a good job of pulling our program out of the gutter and deserves another season to see it through.

But hey, keep doing you Pablo.

 

[GMUgemini]

How can you not be impressed with what Schmidt has accomplished at the school? He took over a program that had a record of 25-114 in the previous 5 seasons.

I am. But if we were evaluating him after season three, do you give him 2 more years to turn it around? And even in year 5, they got lucky not having to play the top 2 seeds to win the conference championship and make the tournament (8th seeded UMass knocked off Temple for them, and 3rd seed Xavier knocked off Saint Louis). They were 17-11 in the regular season.

Guess who we got to play in our best season under Paulsen (would have been interesting to see if we could have beaten URI in the championship. We had only lost to them by 3 earlier that year, but they were playing on fire during the postseason)?

 

[gmujim92]

I was surprised I even found 1 example.

Different sport, but look up Frank Beamer’s season-by-season records. He almost got his a** fired by VT and is gonna end up in the Hall of Fame. Sometimes the best decisions we make are to do nothing.

 

[GMUgemini]

We also forgot to mention Tony Shaver who never got to the NCAA’s and took 7 seasons to make the NIT. Granted, that’s W&M, but he was there 16 years before they finally pulled the plug in him.

 

[Falco]

We also forgot to mention Tony Shaver who never got to the NCAA’s and took 7 seasons to make the NIT. Granted, that’s W&M, but he was there 16 years before they finally pulled the plug in him.

W&M has a basketball team?

 

[MasonSAE4]

Something to look into and think about for your perspective and everyone else’s.

I was informed from a friend of mine last night that Pat Chambers at Penn State is on year 10 without an NCAA appearance and has been mostly mediocre.

Now keep in mind

1) Football school so basketball has little to no expectations
2) Big Ten is a very tough league basketball wise to rebuild in
3) He too probably had to rebuild pipelines of recruits much like Paulsen did (Chambers recruits Philly really well)
4) Time is ticking for him too, but his bosses have stuck with him. Too long? Maybe.

I just found it interesting because I too was searching for an example of somewhere a coach getting a lot of time without making the NCAA and found one oddly enough. Just something to take a look at and for all of us to discuss.

(By no means am I saying “Dave should stay! We should be happy! Yay mediocrity!” Or anything like this, its merely a “hey I thought this was interesting and wanted to share”)

Edit: I was actually wrong. He made the CBI one year and then won the NIT one year.

CBI year 3. NIT year 7.

Probably fair to keep in mind that Penn State football was in turmoil during the period that Chambers would’ve been on the hot seat and I highly doubt the university really cared to be paying a buyout when they had so many problems on the other side of the the house. If they weren’t worried about paying fines/settlements they may have been far more eager to sack him.

 

[GMUgemini]

W&M has a basketball team?

Hey. This might finally be their year. They’ve come really close a few times (we beat them in the finals in 08). Pulling for them to finally get over the hump.

 

[G M U]

I will stand by the statement that Paulsen was hired on the cheap and I wasn’t thrilled about that. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s done a good job of pulling our program out of the gutter and deserves another season to see it through.

But hey, keep doing you Pablo.

Pulling our program out of the gutter...newsflash, it's February and we have 2 wins in the A10 versus teams that are vying for the PIG. We started 11-1 and we're currently 13-9. We likely won't finish above 500 this year. It's safe to say, we're back in the gutter or about to roll back into it.

I'd go as far as saying the roster DP had year one (dumpster fire) could likely beat our current roster.
Give me: Otis, Moore, Jalen, Shevon, Grayer over XJ, Greene, Miller, AJ, Oduro

 

[Walter]

Pulling our program out of the gutter...newsflash, it's February and we have 2 wins in the A10 versus teams that are vying for the PIG. We started 11-1 and we're currently 13-9. We likely won't finish above 500 this year. It's safe to say, we're back in the gutter or about to roll back into it.

I'd go as far as saying the roster DP had year one (dumpster fire) could likely beat our current roster.
Give me: Otis, Moore, Jalen, Shevon, Grayer over XJ, Greene, Miller, AJ, Oduro

Interesting observation. Probably true.

Having a true big man makes a big difference. Also, the DP Y1 team was overall more aggressive.

 

[Patriotsince81]

30 pages of debate. Time to vote? LOL.

 

[Mason32]

Pulling our program out of the gutter...newsflash, it's February and we have 2 wins in the A10 versus teams that are vying for the PIG. We started 11-1 and we're currently 13-9. We likely won't finish above 500 this year. It's safe to say, we're back in the gutter or about to roll back into it.

I'd go as far as saying the roster DP had year one (dumpster fire) could likely beat our current roster.
Give me: Otis, Moore, Jalen, Shevon, Grayer over XJ, Greene, Miller, AJ, Oduro

To those outside these boards it just looks like bad luck losing two seniors to injury, hardly the gutter

 

[Quentin Daniels]

I'd go as far as saying the roster DP had year one (dumpster fire) could likely beat our current roster.
Give me: Otis, Moore, Jalen, Shevon, Grayer over XJ, Greene, Miller, AJ, Oduro

Otis Livingston II G 11.9 / 2.6 Javon Greene G 14.3 / 5.9
Marquise Moore G 11.4 / 6.1 Jordan Miller G 12.2 / 4.7
Shevon Thompson C 9.9 / 10.6 AJ Wilson F 12 / 8.3
Jaire Grayer G 9.5 / 3.8 Jamal Hartwell II G 10.2 / 1.8
Marko Gujanicic F 9.2 / 6.5 Justin Kier G 9.6 / 3.6
Jalen Jenkins F 7.1 / 5.5 Xavier Johnson G 7.3 / 3.5
DeAndre Abram G 6.6 / 2.9 Josh Oduro F 4.1 / 3.4
Kameron Murrell G 2 / 1.3 Greg Calixte F 2.7 / 3.3
Danny Dixon F 1.2 / 1.2 Goanar Mar F 2.2 / 2
Myles Tate G 0.7 / 0.4 Jason Douglas-Stanley G 0.7 / 0.3

 

[sleeperpick]

Otis Livingston II G 11.9 / 2.6 Javon Greene G 14.3 / 5.9
Marquise Moore G 11.4 / 6.1 Jordan Miller G 12.2 / 4.7
Shevon Thompson C 9.9 / 10.6 AJ Wilson F 12 / 8.3
Jaire Grayer G 9.5 / 3.8 Jamal Hartwell II G 10.2 / 1.8
Marko Gujanicic F 9.2 / 6.5 Justin Kier G 9.6 / 3.6
Jalen Jenkins F 7.1 / 5.5 Xavier Johnson G 7.3 / 3.5
DeAndre Abram G 6.6 / 2.9 Josh Oduro F 4.1 / 3.4
Kameron Murrell G 2 / 1.3 Greg Calixte F 2.7 / 3.3
Danny Dixon F 1.2 / 1.2 Goanar Mar F 2.2 / 2
Myles Tate G 0.7 / 0.4 Jason Douglas-Stanley G 0.7 / 0.3

Shevon and Jalen would kill AJ since Paulsen plays him out of position