Dave Paulsen

[gmujim92]

But, but, but we don't spend enough to warrant having a better coach!

vcu spends twice as much as we do.

 

[tblack33]

vcu spends twice as much as we do.

Great job cherry picking a single position on there out of the 148 other schools listed.

 

[gmujim92]

Great job cherry picking a single position on there out of the 148 other schools listed.

So it’s “cherry-picking” to compare two schools that are almost identical size, located less than 100 miles apart in the same state and have been conference rivals for more than two decades?

 

[tblack33]

So it’s “cherry-picking” to compare two schools that are almost identical size, located less than 100 miles apart in the same state and have been conference rivals for more than two decades?

It has been extensively discussed and generally agreed on this board that we aren't on the same level for financing our programs/taking advantage of our success. There are probably a dozen better coaches in that list who are making less than Paulsen is here, at programs that don't have the same resources that we do.

 

[sleeperpick]

It has been extensively discussed and generally agreed on this board that we aren't on the same level for financing our programs/taking advantage of our success. There are probably a dozen better coaches in that list who are making less than Paulsen is here, at programs that don't have the same resources that we do.

here's a list for Jim on coaches making less that are better coaching options for Mason... he won't read it just like he won't admit AJ doesn't 100% play the 4 or that basketball confuses him and that's why he looks so silly on here so often.

John Groce- Akron formerly Illinois same base salary as Paulsen
Steve Forbes- East Tennessee St same base salary as Paulsen
Richey- Furman
Wes Miller- UNC Greensboro (MY FAVORITE) makes 100k less base than Paulsen
John Becker- Vermont make less than Paulsen... probably would be step down to Mason
Rob Senderoff- Kent St makes less than Paulsen
Darrin Horn- Northern Kentucky
Todd Kowalcyk- Toledo makes less than Paulsen
Russell Turner- UC Irvine makes less than Paulsen
Jeff Linder- Northern Colorado (dude makes less than I do) and his bonuses are all academic based
Geno Ford- Stony Brook (makes less than Paulsen)

I didn't look too hard but there are certainly people that disprove the lack of spending for quality coach points.. Paulsen will never get his butts in seat bonuses because half of the people that have such a love for him never attend games

 

[GMUgemini]

Well, one, we tried to hire Turner and his wife turned us down.

Two, without getting close a million, how many in your list would leave their current school for Mason?

Three, how much more could we have spent to entice a better coach here after being cash strapped buying out Hewitt?

 

[sleeperpick]

Well, one, we tried to hire Turner and his wife turned us down.

Two, without getting close a million, how many in your list would leave their current school for Mason?

Three, how much more could we have spent to entice a better coach here after being cash strapped buying out Hewitt?

1. yea I would too. Irvine is nice
2. probably about half
3. good question I am not really an Econ guy

 

[gmujim92]

here's a list for Jim on coaches making less that are better coaching options for Mason... he won't read it just like he won't admit AJ doesn't 100% play the 4 or that basketball confuses him and that's why he looks so silly on here so often.

John Groce- Akron formerly Illinois same base salary as Paulsen
Steve Forbes- East Tennessee St same base salary as Paulsen
Richey- Furman
Wes Miller- UNC Greensboro (MY FAVORITE) makes 100k less base than Paulsen
John Becker- Vermont make less than Paulsen... probably would be step down to Mason
Rob Senderoff- Kent St makes less than Paulsen
Darrin Horn- Northern Kentucky
Todd Kowalcyk- Toledo makes less than Paulsen
Russell Turner- UC Irvine makes less than Paulsen
Jeff Linder- Northern Colorado (dude makes less than I do) and his bonuses are all academic based
Geno Ford- Stony Brook (makes less than Paulsen)

I didn't look too hard but there are certainly people that disprove the lack of spending for quality coach points.. Paulsen will never get his butts in seat bonuses because half of the people that have such a love for him never attend games

The problem, Matt, is guys like Wes Miller and Steve Forbes know they can jump directly to a P5 job these days without having to stop for a cup of coffee at a school like Mason. So they wait around until the right one opens up and poof, they’re gone.

Same for Becker, Turner and the other better names on your list.

Unless you pluck a retread like Groce, you either have to hire a low-major coach who has been successful but isn’t a “hot commodity” like Paulsen or get lucky and hit on a Shaka type before he blows up and is on everybody’s radar.

If the latter was easy, everybody would do it.

 

[gmubrian]

The problem, Matt, is guys like Wes Miller and Steve Forbes know they can jump directly to a P5 job these days without having to stop for a cup of coffee at a school like Mason. So they wait around until the right one opens up and poof, they’re gone.

Same for Becker, Turner and the other better names on your list.

Unless you pluck a retread like Groce, you either have to hire a low-major coach who has been successful but isn’t a “hot commodity” like Paulsen or get lucky and hit on a Shaka type before he blows up and is on everybody’s radar.

If the latter was easy, everybody would do it.

I think the point was less about hiring one of the coaches on sleeperpick's list, and more about pointing out that there are other teams that are outperforming Mason but paying their coach the same or less than Paulsen. I say this because others in the Lasalle thread have been saying that we are getting exactly what we are paying for. Whether they are in comparable situations (facilities, leagues, etc.), I don't know.

 

[gmujim92]

I think the point was less about hiring one of the coaches on sleeperpick's list, and more about pointing out that there are other teams that are outperforming Mason but paying their coach the same or less than Paulsen. I say this because others in the Lasalle thread have been saying that we are getting exactly what we are paying for. Whether they are in comparable situations (facilities, leagues, etc.), I don't know.

None of them are in comparable leagues. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do a good job at Mason — and frankly I don’t know anyone who has insisted we absolutely couldn’t do better than Paulsen, although that strawman gets tossed around here from time to time.

Dave is a good basketball coach who has his flaws just like everyone else.

 

[sleeperpick]

The problem, Matt, is guys like Wes Miller and Steve Forbes know they can jump directly to a P5 job these days without having to stop for a cup of coffee at a school like Mason. So they wait around until the right one opens up and poof, they’re gone.

Same for Becker, Turner and the other better names on your list.

Unless you pluck a retread like Groce, you either have to hire a low-major coach who has been successful but isn’t a “hot commodity” like Paulsen or get lucky and hit on a Shaka type before he blows up and is on everybody’s radar.

If the latter was easy, everybody would do it.

I agree with most of this. Matt McCall was a bigger name than Forbes or Wes Miller and still opted to go to UMASS.
We will never get Becker or Turner but I really don't see anyone else on that list unattainable other than probably Forbes (flavor of the month). The whole point into creating a list was the incorrect point that we can't get better coaching talent at the crappy rates we pay. That is just not accurate to me. wish more than 3 coaches in A10 were accounted for.

 

[GMUgemini]

I agree with most of this. Matt McCall was a bigger name than Forbes or Wes Miller and still opted to go to UMASS.
We will never get Becker or Turner but I really don't see anyone else on that list unattainable other than probably Forbes (flavor of the month). The whole point into creating a list was the incorrect point that we can't get better coaching talent at the crappy rates we pay. That is just not accurate to me. wish more than 3 coaches in A10 were accounted for.

It’s the one thing that sucks about being in a conference with so many private schools. Transparency for comparison is tough.

I’m pretty sure Mooney makes around 900k a year. But how that breaks down, I’ve got no idea.

I’d be surprised if Anthony Grant made less, but I do know Dayton got Archie Miller pretty cheap (in the 400-500k range) and bumped him up significantly when he broke through

 

[gmujim92]

It’s the one thing that sucks about being in a conference with so many private schools. Transparency for comparison is tough.

I’m pretty sure Mooney makes around 900k a year. But how that breaks down, I’ve got no idea.

I’d be surprised if Anthony Grant made less, but I do know Dayton got Archie Miller pretty cheap (in the 400-500k range) and bumped him up significantly when he broke through

Mooney has made $1.3M since UR’s Sweet 16

 

[GMUgemini]

Mooney has made $1.3M since UR’s Sweet 16

Ah, thought it was 900k. Hard to find these figures sometimes. Talk about poor ROI relative to salary.

 

[gmujim92]

Ah, thought it was 900k. Hard to find these figures sometimes. Talk about poor ROI relative to salary.

He’s the poster child for overpaid/underperforming. Can’t imagine what this board would look like if DP was making $1.3M and had back to back 20-loss seasons.

 

[Mason2005]

UNCW should look into poaching DP

 

[Five Two]

https://www.midmajormadness.com/201...ch-contract-salary-database-mid-major-2019-20:



UMass
Atlantic 10
Matt McCall
$250,000
3/28/2023
Receives $400,000 in supplemental compensation. Received a $175,000 retention bonus on July 1, 2019. The athletic director picks 5 games and if UMass wins them McCall receives a $2,500 for each.

Curious if this bonus is something that a lot of schools offer. How does the AD pick the 5 games? What if the coach doesn't agree on the 5 chosen? Looking at UMass' schedule, my guess would be the 5 games the AD selected were at UVA, at St John's, at Rutgers, vs South Carolina and at Harvard. Meaning, no bonus.

 

[Falco]

The problem, Matt, is guys like Wes Miller and Steve Forbes know they can jump directly to a P5 job these days without having to stop for a cup of coffee at a school like Mason. So they wait around until the right one opens up and poof, they’re gone.

Same for Becker, Turner and the other better names on your list.

Unless you pluck a retread like Groce, you either have to hire a low-major coach who has been successful but isn’t a “hot commodity” like Paulsen or get lucky and hit on a Shaka type before he blows up and is on everybody’s radar.

If the latter was easy, everybody would do it.

I understand you’re point. The grass isn’t always greener. But IMO it’s worth exploring. I rather fail trying than remain on the slow rebuild train.

And don’t be scared of retreads. Hewitt gives retreads a bad name, but it’s working for Dayton.

I also like the hiring an assistance coach who comes from a talented coaching tree. Tommy Amaker, Harvard coach, started his coaching career as an assistant for Duke. According to Wiki he took Seton Hall to the post season in each of his four seasons as their coach, helped Michigan win the National Invitation Tournament the year after a probationary ban from postseason play, and had the three highest single-season win totals in the history of Harvard basketball, the school's first six Ivy League championships and first NCAA tournament victory.

 

[mkaufman1]

UNCW should look into poaching DP

I know you are being funny, but Duane Simpkins was an assistant at UNCG and if he still has ties to that region he might be a potential candidate for UNCW.

 

[GMUgemini]

I understand you’re point. The grass isn’t always greener. But IMO it’s worth exploring. I rather fail trying than remain on the slow rebuild train.

And don’t be scared of retreads. Hewitt gives retreads a bad name, but it’s working for Dayton.

I also like the hiring an assistance coach who comes from a talented coaching tree. Tommy Amaker, Harvard coach, started his coaching career as an assistant for Duke. According to Wiki he took Seton Hall to the post season in each of his four seasons as their coach, helped Michigan win the National Invitation Tournament the year after a probationary ban from postseason play, and had the three highest single-season win totals in the history of Harvard basketball, the school's first six Ivy League championships and first NCAA tournament victory.

You have to be careful about young assistants, though, because they might jump really fast. For instance, I wanted us to hire LaVall Jordan when Hewitt was fired, who was a Michigan assistant at the time. He wound up being hired by Milwaukee, spent one season there, and then jumped to take over his alma mater Butler.

We also almost hired Roy Williams when he was an assistant coach, and someone talked him out of it: "if you want to be coach of UNC one day, you won't take that job," is what they told him.