GMU: Where Construction is Tradition

[Falco]

The Final Four didn't build Mason, it gave Mason a temporary boost in exposure and publicity. That's gone.

Giving the basketball team a massive building that's not built for or dedicated to basketball makes zero sense to anyone but you. Please stop suggesting it.

The RAC, while renovated post-Final Four, was renovated not because of the Final Four, but because it needed it.

The cage gym will be given over to the basketball team this summer as a 24/7 dedicate practice facility and Edwards is now trying to build something that's twice as big as what was originally proposed by TOC post-Final Four. Get on board. This is what's happening.

You are naïve if you think Mason would be where it is today without the final 4. I will not get on board with a mediocre mentality.

 

[Patriot8]

Invest in what has been proven to work. Mason basketball when successful will bring in money, why didn't they reinvest when they could.

This is the difference between Mason's post Final 4 success and vcu's. All of that momentum and attention and money is long gone.

 

[MasonFanatic]

All of that momentum and attention and money is long gone.

We can debate all day about whether Mason capitalized on the Final Four properly or not, but this is the key fact. It doesn't matter what Mason failed to do in 2006 or 2009. Anything we do going forward has to be done based on our current economic reality. We need to create new momentum.

 

[Patriot8]

We can debate all day about whether Mason capitalized on the Final Four properly or not, but this is the key fact. It doesn't matter what Mason failed to do in 2006 or 2009. Anything we do going forward has to be done based on our current economic reality. We need to create new momentum.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that?

 

[MasonFanatic]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that?

DJ3 seems to be in denial about our current economic reality.

 

[Falco]

DJ3 seems to be in denial about our current economic reality.

I'm not in denial. I would argue my solution is the most cost effective approach.

Repurpose an existing facility that's already paid for. We would lead the arms race for pennies on the dollar.

 

[GMUgemini]

You are naïve if you think Mason would be where it is today without the final 4. I will not get on board with a mediocre mentality.

No, I think you are naive to think that one basketball season fundamentally changes a university. Mason's law school, its economics program, its IT programs, its public policy programs (and their faculty) are the real drivers of growth at the university. If you really want to look at what has made George Mason successful since the late-1990s, take a look at the growth in research money coming in.

I would argue the same thing is true of vcu: the MCV, and its art and design programs make that university, not its basketball team. If vcu had awful academics, all the basketball success in the world wouldn't matter. As much as we like to rag on vcu for its overall academics, they have some world class programs there that attract students.

Sports are good for two things: exposure of the name to people outside of the region (like you and me), and a means by which students become connected to the university after they leave. These are good things. But don't conflate Mason's academics with the Final Four.

By the way, I still think Merten was wrong for not allowing Mason to do what we are doing now and ask for money for specific athletics projects. I also think he was wrong to not match Miami's offer, but that's besides the point.

Also, marketing is really important. The basketball training facility becomes part of the overall athletics building (the RAC). So, why not just roll in the RAC's overall size and cost when you're marketing it to prospective student-athletes? A $35 million 140,000 square foot athletics facility that includes a dedicated basketball practice facility?

 

[MasonSAE4]

You are actually helping me prove my point, by saying that was "Pre final 4". The final 4 is what built Mason. We need to invest in what works. Athletics is a good investment if you are willing to do what is necessary.

2011 article.

Facilities
Capital outlay spending at Mason has grown from $40 million in 2006 to a present-day total of $160 million. Currently, Mason boasts 168 buildings; in 2006, it had 140. Among the nearly 30 buildings that have opened at Mason in the past five years are the Mason Inn Conference Center and Hotel, Research I and the Long and Kimmy Nguyen Engineering Building on the Fairfax Campus; Founders Hall on the Arlington Campus; and the Hylton Performing Arts Center and the Biomedical Research Laboratory on the Prince William Campus. The Masonvale community of 155 townhomes was built to provide faculty and staff housing adjacent to the Fairfax Campus.

Budget and Fundraising
In 2006, Mason’s operating budget totaled $528 million. That figure is now up to $887 million. Mason raised $20 million in gifts in 2006. This figure is now up to $51 million. Five years ago, Mason had 13,150 donors. In 2011, the number is 14,678.

**And I think it is quiet a stretch to say JMU is half the size of Mason. We both have roughly 20k undergrads. Mason has a lot more post graduate students. Yes many live on campus but I would venture to guess most don't.**

No I'm talking in terms of student population. We've built no gyms since then and enrollment growth has continued. There is a 0.000000% chance the facility would ever get turned over without a replacement. If you've been into the aquatic center or skyline in the past 5 years you know that they're already running over capacity. Taking away the RAC further burdens them.

 

[GMUgemini]

I'm not in denial. I would argue my solution is the most cost effective approach.

Repurpose an existing facility that's already paid for. We would lead the arms race for pennies on the dollar.

Isn't that what they are doing?

 

[Patriot8]

I'm not in denial. I would argue my solution is the most cost effective approach.

Repurpose an existing facility that's already paid for. We would lead the arms race for pennies on the dollar.

Cost effective? What about having to build a brand new facility for all of the displaced students, faculty and staff?

 

[MasonSAE4]

Capital outlay spending at Mason has grown from $40 million in 2006 to a present-day total of $160 million. Currently, Mason boasts 168 buildings; in 2006, it had 140. Among the nearly 30 buildings that have opened at Mason in the past five years are the Mason Inn Conference Center and Hotel, Research I and the Long and Kimmy Nguyen Engineering Building on the Fairfax Campus; Founders Hall on the Arlington Campus; and the Hylton Performing Arts Center and the Biomedical Research Laboratory on the Prince William Campus. The Masonvale community of 155 townhomes was built to provide faculty and staff housing adjacent to the Fairfax Campus.

-- We have money for everything else....
They built a useless hotel, useless 155 townhomes.
Invest in what has been proven to work. Mason basketball when successful will bring in money, why didn't they reinvest when they could.

You can throw out as many numbers without context as you want, but the state still pays for a majority of academic buildings. They don't pay for dorms, let alone athletic expenditures. At this point if you want to see more money going into athletics it's gonna have to be donated or Mason is gonna have to find a creative way to reroute student fees.

 

[Falco]

No, I think you are naive to think that one basketball season fundamentally changes a university.

I would argue the same thing is true of vcu: the MCV, and its art and design programs make that university, not its basketball team. If vcu had awful academics, all the basketball success in the world wouldn't matter. As much as we like to rag on vcu for its overall academics, they have some world class programs there that attract students.

Sports are good for two things: exposure of the name to people outside of the region (like you and me), and a means by which students become connected to the university after they leave. These are good things. But don't conflate Mason's academics with the Final Four.

By the way, I still think Merten was wrong for not allowing Mason to do what we are doing now and ask for money for specific athletics projects. I also think he was wrong to not match Miami's offer, but that's besides the point.

Also, marketing is really important. The basketball training facility becomes part of the overall athletics building (the RAC). So, why not just roll in the RAC's overall size and cost when you're marketing it to prospective student-athletes? A $35 million 140,000 square foot athletics facility that includes a dedicated basketball practice facility?

I agree with everything you are saying. We certainly need to give credit where it's due. Mason's law school, its economics program, its IT programs, its public policy programs have and do a great job. They are all top notch programs. I didn't mean to disrespect them. You hit the nail on the head when you said the final 4 run provided exposure. The final for run showed the country how amazing George Mason really is. In 2006 Mason recieved $20 million in gifts to continue/ and expand their good work.

Mason has great programs, and more quality exposure will help help the whole university

 

[Pablo]

Dave Paulsen‏Verified account@PaulsenDave 4h4 hours ago
66 donations over 10k raised in 1 day! Humbled by the support!

1. Nyla Milleson‏@NylaMilleson 19h19 hours ago
   Nyla Milleson Retweeted Mason Athletics
   
   Two of the best at Mason! @MasonWBB thanks you for all you do for us!!!
   
   
   
   
   
   Nyla Milleson added,
   
   
   
   
   Mason AthleticsVerified account@MasonAthletics
   Giving Day shout out to Mason's own Jay and Carolyn Marsh for their $5,000 pledge towards the Basketball Practice Facility. #Give2Mason
   

 

[The Great PATSby]

So I took my fam to the Circus yesterday at EBA... Now I'm not a structural engineer, but for me to believe that our current roof can't support a video based scoreboard is a crock of ish. If the amount of scaffolding, lights, people, wires, props etc. associated with the circus acts can simultaneously weighing down on the current ceiling all while our current scoreboard was still up there, then we can definitely get a new scoreboard up there.

 

[GMUgemini]

So I took my fam to the Circus yesterday at EBA... Now I'm not a structural engineer, but for me to believe that our current roof can't support a video based scoreboard is a crock of ish. If the amount of scaffolding, lights, people, wires, props etc. associated with the circus acts can simultaneously weighing down on the current ceiling all while our current scoreboard was still up there, then we can definitely get a new scoreboard up there.

So, why would they reject the free scoreboard Ted Leonsis was going to donate to the Patriot Center? Was it a ruse to try to get the state to pay for upgrades?

 

[Raider_SPE]

So I took my fam to the Circus yesterday at EBA... Now I'm not a structural engineer, but for me to believe that our current roof can't support a video based scoreboard is a crock of ish. If the amount of scaffolding, lights, people, wires, props etc. associated with the circus acts can simultaneously weighing down on the current ceiling all while our current scoreboard was still up there, then we can definitely get a new scoreboard up there.

Those events wont be going away (except the circus) so the roof will still need hold the extra lighting etc. all while still holding up the new heavier scoreboard.

 

[Falco]

So, why would they reject the free scoreboard Ted Leonsis was going to donate to the Patriot Center? Was it a ruse to try to get the state to pay for upgrades?

I spoke to TOC about this, EBA doesn't meet the current safety codes. Fortunately/Unfortunately the arena is grandfathered into the old safety codes. Most renovations would require Mason to update a lot to meet current safety codes.

Mason wasn't prepared to pay for the required safety features when a free scoreboard was available.

Hopefully if another free scoreboard becomes available BE will support upgrading the arena to meet the current safety codes.

 

[The Great PATSby]

I spoke to TOC about this, EBA doesn't meet the current safety codes. Fortunately/Unfortunately the arena is grandfathered into the old safety codes. Most renovations would require Mason to update a lot to meet current safety codes.

Mason wasn't prepared to pay for the required safety features when a free scoreboard was available.

Hopefully if another free scoreboard becomes available BE will support upgrading the arena to meet the current safety codes.

Thanks for the info. I guess this answers a lot questions

 

[MasonSAE4]

Is a video scoreboard from 2017 heavier than our normal one? I would imagine tech has progressed to the point where having basically four TV screens is cheaper than that cinderblock hanging from the ceiling

 

[Pikapppatri8]

I spoke to TOC about this, EBA doesn't meet the current safety codes. Fortunately/Unfortunately the arena is grandfathered into the old safety codes. Most renovations would require Mason to update a lot to meet current safety codes.

Mason wasn't prepared to pay for the required safety features when a free scoreboard was available.

Hopefully if another free scoreboard becomes available BE will support upgrading the arena to meet the current safety codes.

I got the same thing when I met with him about and I posted it here (everyone forgot I guess).....