Game 9: College of William and Mary, Wednesday, December 6th, 7 PM, Atlantic10.com

dr. gunnie

Administrator
Staff member
Would you feel the same way if Danny Dixon (apparently the 2nd worst player to don a Mason uniform), Abrahms, and Relvao all stayed and we had to honor their scholarships. Now we have none left to use for a D1 college level talent. I would rather use $80 dollars than to spend $50 dollars on items I can't return even though they are broken and don't work

Fair question. I'm looking at it (right or wrong) from the standpoint that we already know that Paulsen doesn't have a problem with showing guys the door they they are not able to compete at this level. He has done it every year he's been here. Knowing that, I don't see as much risk bringing in another big guy - say with last year's freshman group, and if he doesn't pan out, having him move on (like the numerous other guys that he has nudged out). Like I said, he's done it each year so far, so for me, it would be worth the risk.

Obviously there is a lot less risk with a grad transfer, and that is really my more preferred scenario for last year (I was pushing for one since the end of last season - even it was just another body in practice that could give us some spot minutes). Of course, easier said than done to say "go get us a grad transfer", but that's what these guys are getting paid for.

BTW - it's nice to have decent talk about hoops without the name calling or other bs, hope it keeps going.
 

Jack Strop

Starter
⭐️ Donor ⭐️
Ok, it's time for a history lesson. There's been a lot comparing going on regarding Larrañaga's and Paulsen's rebuilds. Yes, they were both rebuilds from devastatingly inept coaches. However, in both instnances the previous coaches were excellent recuiters. Both Westhead and Hewitt had quality players in the wings when their tenures expired. We all know what happened with most of Hewitt's recruits, they split.

Coach L inherited George Evans. Evans was highly a touted player in the US Army's league. Unproven otherwise at any formal basketball program such as AAU or HS. Evans was a Westhead recruit. When Westhead was deposed Evans was seriously considering to reenlist in the Army. Coach L had to beg him to reconsider. At a mature 25 years old with Army leadership training under his belt, Coach L knew that Evans was a man among boys and that his Army leadership skills would help him quickly build confidence and spread maturity throughout the team. Coach L will readily admit, and I believe he has, that he was divinely lucky to have been left with Evans. No Evans, no quick rebuild.

And, if I'm wrong please correct me, but I don't think Erik Herring was a Coach L recruit either. Herring was an incredibly talented player who ended his career in the Chicago Bulls training camp upon graduation. Yes, if Evans were younger he too would have had NBA opportunities. Those two were high quality players for which Coach L would not have had been able to remotely acheive such great success without. Coach L will tell you this straight up.

Despite DP's best efforts, he could not salvage the best players that Hewitt left for him. Of the players and recruits DP held on to, none were not even 25% of the quality and maturity of Evans or the skill level of Herring. There were no Freshman phenoms to lean on and build upon (although, our current freshman class looks enormously promising!). We as fans do not know why so many of Paulsen's early recruits failed to remain with the team leaving us in our current undermanned state. Perhaps they were imature, lazy, unreceptive to coaching, behaviorly-challenged, bad influences, injured, unconfident, home sick, needed at home—any one of which does not indicate roster mismanagement and may even indicate prudent roster management.

Any way you look at the two major rebuilds in Mason Basketball history, beyond the fact they took place after a coaching disaster, they are both incomparable in scale, depth, and luck.

Currently, it is what it is with Paulsen. Right now our focus as fans should no longer be to bemoan that we have an undermanned roster. It's a moot point. It's the current situation, deal with it. There are no players that Mason can trade for or pick up via free-agency, the waiver wire, or pluck off some other team's practice squad. The best thing we can do for these young, hard-working players is to assist them with our best support. In Dave, in Brad, in the Mason 8 I do thee trust!
 
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Falco

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
You do realize we don't play in a mid-major conference, right? Most basketball analysts put the A-10 as a major conference. It's not as easy to win in the A-10 playing against teams with 4 and 5 star recruits and NBA prospects on them.

Also speaking of the 2006-2007 Mason men's basketball team, they also collapsed in the second half at home against Wichita State and W&M (and I was sitting with two W&M student in the stands at the time when the collapse was happening).

Not exactly a mid major. But certainty not a high major. If the conference is so good, and we make excuses as to why we will suck then why did we join...
 

Falco

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
Ok, it's time for a history lesson. There's been a lot comparing going on regarding Larrañanga's and Paulsen's rebuilds. Yes, they were both rebuilds from devastatingly inept coaches. However, in both instnances the previous coaches were excellent recuiters. Both Westhead and Hewitt had quality players in the wings when their tenures expired. We all know what happened with most of Hewitt's recruits, they split.

Coach L inherited George Evans. Evans was highly touted player in US Army league. Unproven otherwise at any formal basketball program such as AAU or HS. Evans was a Westhead recruit. When Westhead was deposed Evans was seriously considering to reenlist in the Army. Coach L had to beg him to reconsider. At a mature 25 years old with Army leadership training under his belt, Coach L knew that Evans was man among boys and that his Army leadership skills would help him quickly build confidence and maturity through the team. Coach L will readily admit, and I believe he has, that he divinely lucky to have been left with Evans. No Evans, no quick rebuild.

And, if I'm wrong please correct me, but I don't think Erik Herring was a Coach L recruit either. Herring was an incredibly talented player who ended his career in the Chicago Bulls training camp upon graduation. Yes, if Evans were younger he too would have had NBA opportunities. Those two were high quality players for which Coach L would not have had been able to remotely acheive such great success without. Coach will tell you this straight up.

Despite DP's best efforts, he could not salvage the best players that Hewitt left for him. Of the players and recruits DP held on to, none were not even 25% of the quality and maturity of Evans or the skill level of Herring. There were no Freshman phenoms to lean on and build upon (although, our current freshman class looks enormously promising!). We as fans do not know why so many of Paulsen's early recruits failed to remain with the team leaving us in our current undermanned state. Perhaps they were imature, lazy, unreceptive to coaching, behaviorly-challenged, bad influences, injured, unconfident, home sick, needed at home—any one which does not indicate roster mismanagement and may even indicate prudent roster management.

Any way you look at the two major rebuilds in Mason Basketball history, beyond the fact they took place after coaching disaster a they are both incomparable in scale, depth, and luck.

Currently, it is what it is with Paulsen. Right now our focus as fans should no longer be to bemoan that we have an undermanned roster. It's a moot point. It's the current situation, deal with it. There are no players that Mason can trade for or pick up via free-agency, the waiver wire, or pluck off some other team's practice squad. The best thing we can do for these young, hard-working players is to assist them with our best support. In Dave, in Brad, in the Mason 8 I do thee trust!
In short, DP sucks. DP inherited Jenkins, Moore, and Shevon. They all play professionally now. Same caliber as George Evans.

The difference was Coach L won, and DP cant.
 

Falco

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
:bricks:

Evans was a three time POY - None of those other guys even made the 1st team all conference. They were all very good players, but please, never, ever, ever, ever, say that those guys were the same caliber as George Evans.

:bricks:
You think Moore wouldn't have got POY in the CAA?
 

dr. gunnie

Administrator
Staff member
You think Moore wouldn't have got POY in the CAA?

Put it this way, I'll would take Evans and Miskiri over Moore, Jalen, and Shevon any day of the week.

I would also take Wiz over Jalen and Shevon... now Wiz vs Moore, that's a tough call.
 

Jack Strop

Starter
⭐️ Donor ⭐️
In short, DP sucks. DP inherited Jenkins, Moore, and Shevon. They all play professionally now. Same caliber as George Evans.

The difference was Coach L won, and DP cant.
DJ3, I like your energy and you provide some quality entertainment, but...

...you are so clueless and out of touch. Jenkins, Moore, and Shevon combined would never be able to fit in George Evans' jock strap.
 

Falco

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
Sure George Evans was an awesome player. I don't want to debate that. But Coach L is by far a much better coach then DP.

Coach L had complete teams. Its like DP doesn't try to assemble a team when he recruits. He just works with what ever he gets. I would love nothing more then to be wrong, but DP wont take us to the tourney. we might as well leave the A10 if we cant even handle a CAA team at home.
 

MasonSAE4

All-American
⭐️ Donor ⭐️
In short, DP sucks. DP inherited Jenkins, Moore, and Shevon. They all play professionally now. Same caliber as George Evans.

The difference was Coach L won, and DP cant.
Jenkins was a solid player, but he was not a beast by any stretch, Shevon had barely played basketball by the time DP got less than a year to work with him, and Marquise could not shoot a basketball. Don't get me wrong, Marquise had a phenomenal season last year, but once teams figured out that they could double team him and our open man wouldn't punish them, we fell off a bit. DP didn't exactly inherit a treasure trove of riches.
 

Falco

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
DJ3, I like your energy and you provide some quality entertainment, but...

...you are so clueless and out of touch. Jenkins, Moore, and Shevon combined would never be able to fit in George Evans' jock strap.

I know George Evans was a beast, but what I am trying to say is DP had pieces to work with. He had three professional quality players on his team.
 

FreeGunston12

All-American
Sure George Evans was an awesome player. I don't want to debate that. But Coach L is by far a much better coach then DP.

Coach L had complete teams. Its like DP doesn't try to assemble a team when he recruits. He just works with what ever he gets. I would love nothing more then to be wrong, but DP wont take us to the tourney. we might as well leave the A10 if we cant even handle a CAA team at home.
Guys - this loss sucked. But it's only one game. And in fact, some of us were correct in predicting a loss to a CAA opponent this year--ahem-. Up to this point, the team has the exact record that I thought they would. I didn't know if it was going to be W&M or JMU, but I knew we'd lose one of those games. Other than W&M, what other game did you think we should win? I'm sorry if you thought they were going to be world beaters. This is not the year.

And yes, we have 8 eligible scholarship players. We have a 9th scholarship redshirting his transfer year. I don't think the staff planned to have Relvao & Temara both leave so close to the start of the season. If we were currently using all of our scholarships, we would likely have no incoming class for next year.

The way things played out to set this season up was unfortunate. But I don't think the blame can be put squarely on this staff. Sometimes crap just doesn't go your way.
 

Jack Strop

Starter
⭐️ Donor ⭐️
You think Moore wouldn't have got POY in the CAA?
Moore's senior season as POY in the CAA? Sure, he would have been considered. Three-time POY like Evans? NO CHANCE!

Wasn't Evans also CAA Freshman of the Year? Yes, he was that as well.
 
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FreeGunston12

All-American
I know George Evans was a beast, but what I am trying to say is DP had pieces to work with. He had three professional quality players on his team.
Dude, practically every D1 player can play somewhere professionally. Relvao will end up playing professionally. Dixon will probably end up playing professionally. ANALI OKOLOJI plays professionally. It means nothing.
 

gmujim92

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
Love the coaching convo, where was everyone back when Jim was calling us idiots on our twitter page? The notion that Paulsen is off limits of criticism and discussion is souring.

1. You are idiots.

2. I never suggested DP should be off limits from criticism. I just said you should know what the F you are talking about before you criticize him. Crazy thought, I know.
 

Jack Strop

Starter
⭐️ Donor ⭐️
Pop Quiz! True or false?

George Evans = Shevon Thompson?
Erik Herring = Jalen Jenkins?
Jason Miskiri = Marquise Moore?

A: Tragically false on all accounts. To make these statement true replace the "=" the biggest ">" you can find.

Herring and Evans were strong NBA prospects and Miskiri briefly found himself on an NBA roster and played a bit. There's no comparison as to what Coach L inherited and the rubble that DP was left. Coach L may have won more quickly during his rebuild, but taking the group that DP was handed and turning them into a 20-game winner in year 2? What's not to be proud and awed about?
 
P

Patriot05

Spectator
1. You are idiots.

2. I never suggested DP should be off limits from criticism. I just said you should know what the F you are talking about before you criticize him. Crazy thought, I know.

Don't listen to them Jim, they posted a picture of the A-10 trophy earlier this preseason as to say 'this is our year', they are completely clueless on realistic expectations for a program rebuild.
 
D

DJ6 CISED FOR SIZE

Spectator
Funny how people are JUST now starting to realize now that the projections by almost everyone for this team to finish 10th or so in the A-10 with about 15-17 wins total is looking like a spot on prediction.
 
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