Game 26: #12 ranked St. Louis, Feb 19th, 7 PM, NBCSN

[Masonfan3]

I wish Will Thomas would come back and teach him how to back into a defender and put up shots. That would make a world of difference.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Copes has no moves on the low post and lacks basic fundamentals. With his size he really should be able to put up at least 8 and 8 each night. My question is (and its a serious one), what exactly does his Uncle do and what are his coaching strengths supposed to be? It seems like all of our big men have regressed, although I do like J2's moves at times and Marko shows flashes but that has more to do with his European style than anything this coaching staff has done. It seems the only thing our big men are good at is committing stupid fouls and giving up easy layups. Since we all know Hewitt probably isn't going anywhere, if we are going to make a change then that is the first place we need to start. Get rid of Houston and bring someone in who can get our big men to develop at least 1 move down low, get them to not leave their feet on defense, and box out..basically someone who knows the fundamentals of the game.

 

[NoCliche87]

Just for the record, that is hardly fact at all. See Copes, Marko, Corey Edwards etc etc etc.

Nobody is saying hell flame out, but there are some legit issues with his game.

I agree... I don't see that jump shot developing at all... The mechanics and everything about it is just way off... And like you stated seems to be the way he shot his whole life

 

[Cool Disco Dan]

I think the knocks on Moore are missing the point for 2 reasons. 1) The opposing PG last night has made 8 3ptrs this season and 4 in each of his 1st two seasons, and he's a 60% FT shooter...and he's the MVP of our league. Maybe Moore develops a serviceable 3 ball like we've seen other guards do (BA, Maynor, Bazemore, etc.) but even if he doesn't, he can still develop into a solid PG.

2) Our offense has been okay - we're the only team to break 80 against the #2 defense in the country (SLU) and we did twice (albeit w/ OT). But we're a bad team because our interior defense is awful...and when a team needs a bucket, they can get an easy 2 inside, off the dribble or by moving the ball and getting an open 3.

 

[NoCliche87]

Allen would at least catch you with an occasional mid range jumper which teams would have to respect it

 

[Petey Buckets]

Just for the record, that is hardly fact at all. See Copes, Marko, Corey Edwards etc etc etc.

Nobody is saying hell flame out, but there are some legit issues with his game.

Right, nothing is guaranteed. Corey actually did get better then regressed again (picks up his dribble all the time) and Copes is still terrible. I would argue with you about Marko since I think he's been hurt but that's beside the point.

The point is that you don't need a good jumper to be an effective PG at this level. If we're looking at the typical player development arc, guys get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses in year 1 and do a much better job playing around them in year 2. I see Moore as an effective slash and kick PG who can run the break really well, and I think he'll continue to develop there.

 

[Patriotfan49]

Again, Jett, Allen, and all these examples arent the same as Moore. Moores shot has legit funky, fundamental issues as well as a clear lack of confidence and trust in it. Its not like Vertrail Vaughns where its just a funky shot but it works, and he has confidence in it......its more like a Tim Tebow issue imo.

All the other guys were than capable of hitting a shot, to where you couldnt just stand back and give him a 5-10 foot bubble.

 

[Patriot Lawdog]

So I guess the whole Roland Houston helped to develop Ryan Pearson's game theory is pretty much gone at this point? Shocking that Pearson and Morrison basically did things on their own that year.

 

[Patriot Lawdog]

I'm depressed but why is everyone worried about 14-15 given the solid play of Moore and Jenkins? I think we'll make a postseason tourney next year!

You mean other than the fact that we have an incompetent coach and will have to make up for 45 -50 points a game. Yea, that will be easy. But our guys know how to win, they'll find....oh wait.

 

[gmujim92]

Yes in theory that is true, but in this case his shot is flawed fundamentally. Its just not an issue of going in the hole. He may shoot 75% from the line, when nobody is guarding him....but he cant hit that shot in the game....hes shown that.

Maynor, Siva, Rondo etc are 100% different from Moore....so lets not even act as if they are peers or even use their name in this situation....its very far fetched and ridiculous to compare NBA players to Moore.

Sorry, 49, but I think you're being a little too quick to judge here.

Eric Maynor's jump shot was every bit as awful as Moore's when he was a freshman at vcu. He cocked his elbow at a weird angle and the ball always had an awful side spin coming off his hand. But he was taught the correct fundamentals, worked his a** off and became a passable enough shooter that guys couldn't sag off him -- thereby opening it up for his natural driving ability.

At this point, there's no reason to doubt that Moore has the work ethic and drive to make significant improvements. For all of its flaws, our staff has shown some ability to help guys develop their skills individually. I'm not suggesting in any way that he's gonna wind up in the NBA, but to close the book on Moore before the end of a pretty good freshman season is short-sighted and unwarranted IMHO.

 

[Dawgs99]

I could give a rat's a** about our offense next season, I can deal with a struggling team offensively. What I can't stomach any longer is the piss poor defense game after game and season after season. If our defense doesn't improve next season does it really matter who does the scoring??>

 

[gmujim92]

Also, I'm not sure why anyone would hate on Moore for not shooting jumpers in game situations, when it's obviously not his role on this team.

Where I come from, that's not considered "lacking confidence" or any such nonsense. It's called smart basketball and playing to your strengths.

The kid is a freshman, a late signee who has stepped into the starting lineup and played pretty damn well, and we're gonna kill him? Seriously, this board is even too negative for me sometimes.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

Yes in theory that is true, but in this case his shot is flawed fundamentally. Its just not an issue of going in the hole. He may shoot 75% from the line, when nobody is guarding him....but he cant hit that shot in the game....hes shown that.

Maynor, Siva, Rondo etc are 100% different from Moore....so lets not even act as if they are peers or even use their name in this situation....its very far fetched and ridiculous to compare NBA players to Moore.

I'm not comparing them, but I could give you a list of dozens upon dozens of college point guards over the years that never developed an outside shot, never made the pros, and still were easily more positive factors than negative on offense.

Plus the guy is a true frosh. There's ample time to develop. Maynor played 15.7 mpg as a freshman and contributed 4.7 points a game and 2.2 apg.

No, I'm not saying Moore is Maynor but the learning curve for a freshman point guard is steep, and Moore is well ahead of it at this point. I've seen shots as bad as Moore's develop, and even if it doesn't, the net positives with other areas of his game might well make up for it.

 

[GMUgemini]

Again, Jett, Allen, and all these examples arent the same as Moore. Moores shot has legit funky, fundamental issues as well as a clear lack of confidence and trust in it. Its not like Vertrail Vaughns where its just a funky shot but it works, and he has confidence in it......its more like a Tim Tebow issue imo.

All the other guys were than capable of hitting a shot, to where you couldnt just stand back and give him a 5-10 foot bubble.

So you work your a** off and fix it. I didn't learn how to properly take the ball out of the air and hit a one-time volley in frame with my left foot until I was about 21. How did I do it? Hours and hours of looking like an idiot and tweaking and tweaking and looking like an idiot some more.

It's all about commitment. I'll give you another example switching from a standard alternate picking method on the guitar to gypsy style picking takes about six months of constant practice during which time you feel like your brain hurts and your hands stop work and you are constantly thinking, but eventually it gets ingrained.

The point is you can unlearn our habits and relearn new techniques. It just takes commitment and a willingness I feel like an idiot for a few months.

 

[AAUMAN]

Sorry, 49, but I think you're being a little too quick to judge here.

Eric Maynor's jump shot was every bit as awful as Moore's when he was a freshman at vcu. He cocked his elbow at a weird angle and the ball always had an awful side spin coming off his hand. But he was taught the correct fundamentals, worked his a** off and became a passable enough shooter that guys couldn't sag off him -- thereby opening it up for his natural driving ability.

At this point, there's no reason to doubt that Moore has the work ethic and drive to make significant improvements. For all of its flaws, our staff has shown some ability to help guys develop their skills individually. I'm not suggesting in any way that he's gonna wind up in the NBA, but to close the book on Moore before the end of a pretty good freshman season is short-sighted and unwarranted IMHO.

No pun intended but are you smoking BUD to make this statement: "our staff has shown some ability to help guys develop their skills individually". Like I said I know this game and the who's...who in the game and like I stated these assistant coaches aren't respected as skill set developers in the D1 coaching business....If not for Hewitt these assistant coaches wouldn't have a job as an assistant coach in D1 bball......FACT.

 

[gmutom]

The thing I like about Moore is you can tell he has a competitive spirit and a desire to get better. I'm not saying his shot can or can't be fixed — that's way above my pay grade — but I'd bet money he'll do everything he can in the offseason to turn what is now a liability into an asset his last three seasons.

 

[Petey Buckets]

Like I said I know this game and the who's...who in the game and like I stated these assistant coaches aren't respected as skill set developers in the D1 coaching business....If not for Hewitt these assistant wouldn't have a job as an assistant coach in D1 bball......FACT.

Do you drive a Dodge Stratus?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2uUDkMYtrQ

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

I could give a rat's a** about our offense next season, I can deal with a struggling team offensively. What I can't stomach any longer is the piss poor defense game after game and season after season. If our defense doesn't improve next season does it really matter who does the scoring??>

To me, this is where some development had better take place, especially with PH (certainly) and Marko (possibly) getting big bumps in minutes next year.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

No pun intended but are you smoking BUD to make this statement: "our staff has shown some ability to help guys develop their skills individually". Like I said I know this game and the who's...who in the game and like I stated these assistant coaches aren't respected as skill set developers in the D1 coaching business....If not for Hewitt these assistant wouldn't have a job as an assistant coach in D1 bball......FACT.

I think our staff should be fired and maybe killed.

But there's no doubt they helped develop Morrison at least.

They really seem like a staff that can help 1-2 guys that they like (except Copes) while regressing 3-5 others.

 

[Patriotfan49]

Sorry, 49, but I think you're being a little too quick to judge here.

Eric Maynor's jump shot was every bit as awful as Moore's when he was a freshman at vcu. He cocked his elbow at a weird angle and the ball always had an awful side spin coming off his hand. But he was taught the correct fundamentals, worked his a** off and became a passable enough shooter that guys couldn't sag off him -- thereby opening it up for his natural driving ability.

At this point, there's no reason to doubt that Moore has the work ethic and drive to make significant improvements. For all of its flaws, our staff has shown some ability to help guys develop their skills individually. I'm not suggesting in any way that he's gonna wind up in the NBA, but to close the book on Moore before the end of a pretty good freshman season is short-sighted and unwarranted IMHO.

Ive said repeatedly that Im not closing the book, or writing him off. I just think its a very difficult uphill process and will take alot to overcome that, and in the meantime during that process we will have to deal with it.

 

[Patriotfan49]

So you work your a** off and fix it. I didn't learn how to properly take the ball out of the air and hit a one-time volley in frame with my left foot until I was about 21. How did I do it? Hours and hours of looking like an idiot and tweaking and tweaking and looking like an idiot some more.

It's all about commitment. I'll give you another example switching from a standard alternate picking method on the guitar to gypsy style picking takes about six months of constant practice during which time you feel like your brain hurts and your hands stop work and you are constantly thinking, but eventually it gets ingrained.

The point is you can unlearn our habits and relearn new techniques. It just takes commitment and a willingness I feel like an idiot for a few months.

Thanks for that trip down your childhood memory lane. Like I said, nowhere have I written him off or think it wont happen....its just going to be a long process imo, especially given that hes shot that way for say 19 years and now has 3 years to all of the sudden change the form and his mental trust in it.