Dave Paulsen

[gmujim92]

https://talk.collegeconfidential.co...ial-aid-athletic-scholarship-combination.html:

Swimkidsdad613 replies3 threadsMember
From the NCAA D1 2012-2013 manual

15.02.4.3 Exempted Institutional Financial Aid.

The following institutional financial aid is exempt and is not counted in determining the institution’s financial aid limitations: (Revised: 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

(a) An honorary award for outstanding academic achievement or an established institutional research grant that meets the criteria set forth in Bylaw 15.02.6 (and must be included in determining if the student athlete’s
cost of attendance has been met); (Revised: 1/10/91, 1/10/92, 10/31/02 effective 8/1/03)

(b) A postgraduate scholarship awarded by an institution in accordance with Bylaw 16.1.4.1.1; (Adopted: 4/25/02)

(c) Federal government grants awarded based on a student’s demonstrated financial need [e.g., Supplemental Educational Opportunities Grant (SEOG)], regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient; (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

(d) State government grants awarded based on a student’s demonstrated financial need, regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient, provided the aid is administered in accordance with the federal methodology for determining a student’s financial need and has no relationship to athletics ability. However, such aid is not exempt for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete’s counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.2; (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

(e) State government merit-based grants, regardless of whether the institution is responsible for selecting the recipient or determining the amount of aid, or providing matching or supplementary funds for a previously determined recipient, provided the aid is awarded consistent with the criteria of Bylaws 15.5.3.2.2.1, 15.5.3.2.2.2 or 15.5.3.2.2.3 and has no relationship to athletics ability. However, such aid is not exempt for purposes of determining a football or basketball student-athlete’s counter status pursuant to Bylaw 15.5.1.2; and (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

(f ) Matching payments made by the Department of Veterans Affairs pursuant to the Yellow Ribbon G.I. Education Enhancement Program [see Bylaw 15.2.5.1-(e)]. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

The “ institution’s financial aid limitations” is the total athletic scholarships money available for that sport and has an upper limit set by the NCAA (i.e. number of equivalent scholarships).

This is useful info.

 

[sleeperpick]

This is useful info.

Can you break it down in laymen’s terms? I understand everything I read but I can’t quite justify saying an answer of whether kier or Boyd would benefit from such rules.

 

[jessej]

Can you name an example in NCAA mens basketball that a top 8 roster player was on an academic scholarship rather than a basketball one? Because AJ, Boyd or Kier would be that on our roster next year and at least one would have to be on academic or postgraduate scholarships if what you are saying is true. Wouldn't every basketball team be doing this?

I think Coach McDermott at Creighton took Superstar son off of scholarship to get another player - and paid son's tuition out of pocket. But i agree - this is very rare.

 

[jessej]

1) assuming you have 10 athletic scholarships
2) and some of the players are eligible for regular financial aid

can you allocate the 10 as partials, 1/4, 1/3, 1/2 2/3, 3/4 to cover the whole team and use regular financial aid to cover the rest?

 

[gmujim92]

Can you break it down in laymen’s terms? I understand everything I read but I can’t quite justify saying an answer of whether kier or Boyd would benefit from such rules.

As I read it, seems like a postgrad scholarship wouldn’t count toward the 13 limit. But I have no idea if that’s true — I always assumed all aid counted toward the limit because as you pointed out, if it didn’t the blue bloods would have 25 guys on some kind of “scholarship.”

 

[jessej]

As I read it, seems like a postgrad scholarship wouldn’t count toward the 13 limit. But I have no idea if that’s true — I always assumed all aid counted toward the limit because as you pointed out, if it didn’t the blue bloods would have 25 guys on some kind of “scholarship.”

You raise an interesting question
as the Ivy League Schools are Division I basketball, yet offer no athletic scholarships
so the players get anywhere from 0 to 100% non athletic based financial aid

 

[GSII]

It's like a walk on getting a biology scholly. Same will happen for Kier and Boyd.

 

[PoorManProfit]

Folks, I have it on VERY STRONG authority from a HIGHLY REPUTABLE source that ALL of the players that are eligible to return next season want to return. Additionally, it was related to me that if everyone wants and is able to stay then Coach Dave and the AD will find a way to keep them. Yes, this includes Justin Kier, Ian Boyd, AJ Wilson, and surprisingly, JDS.

It turns out that the players have much deeper faith in, and affinity for, Coach Dave than
some (ever assuming) Mason fans do. Hmmmmmm?...

Or, and more likely, players have no better options. Which is extremely sad. Another waste season with Frumpy Dave.

 

[tblack33]

Beats me how the scenario is feasible. I'm simply telling it as it was told to me.

Lol well an ounce of critical thinking would tell you that this is not possible. I heard a homeless man once tell me he was sleeping with the First Lady, doesn't mean it makes sense or is true.

 

[tblack33]

As I read it, seems like a postgrad scholarship wouldn’t count toward the 13 limit. But I have no idea if that’s true — I always assumed all aid counted toward the limit because as you pointed out, if it didn’t the blue bloods would have 25 guys on some kind of “scholarship.”

This is exactly the case. Don't y'all think if there was this big of a loophole, someone would have figured out how to exploit it before us? Ignorance is bliss and all but reading some of this stuff makes me question how some of y'all get outta bed and put on shoes in the morning.

 

[sleeperpick]

This is exactly the case. Don't y'all think if there was this big of a loophole, someone would have figured out how to exploit it before us? Ignorance is bliss and all but reading some of this stuff makes me question how some of y'all get outta bed and put on shoes in the morning.

I am with you that it certainly seems impossible but I am not really in the mood of critical thinking of loopholes that have never happened elsewhere so I gave it the benefit of the doubt lol

 

[tblack33]

I am with you that it certainly seems impossible but I am not really in the mood of critical thinking of loopholes that have never happened elsewhere so I gave it the benefit of the doubt lol

Yeah the only way both Kier and Boyd come back is if either:

A. Two people transfer. Believable for both JDS and Mar or AJ or maybe Javon to be looking to transfer for various reasons.

B. Dave decides next year is his last shot, pulls the scholarship offer from two of the incoming Freshman. Terrible look in the long run for the school and program, but I'd at least understand the sense of urgency and thinking that is his best shot to win now.

C. No one leaves, all freshman come in, Boyd and Kier both walk on and pay their own way. Would be probably unprecedented in CBB. Screws up our player development for guys like XJ/Oduro/Dady who wouldn't see the floor next year.

 

[Falco]

but like that isn't how scholarships work unless 2 of them stay on as walk on's. why would anybody want to do that? I have also heard different but no need for a who's source is best measuring contest. Saying your theory is correct how does the math work?

Someone will magically get an academic or track scholarship.

 

[gmujim92]

Someone will magically get an academic or track scholarship.

Interestingly, I’m pretty sure Jamie Skeen was on a track scholarship after he transferred from Wake to vcu because vcu had all 13 basketball scholarships spoken for.

Skeen, of course, wound up being a key player on their Final Four team.

 

[PoorManProfit]

This is exactly the case. Don't y'all think if there was this big of a loophole, someone would have figured out how to exploit it before us? Ignorance is bliss and all but reading some of this stuff makes me question how some of y'all get outta bed and put on shoes in the morning.

Best post ever. Morons act like keeping these guys will make any difference that would matter. Just fire Frumpy Dave already and start over for ffs.

 

[Patriot8]

The fact that they are honoring Boyd, when he could easily just take this as a redshirt year and return if he wants to, makes me think there is no way he stays.

Its different for Kier because there’s no guarantee he gets a waiver.

 

[FreeGunston12]

Regardless of level of competition, name 1 player that is playing better now than in November. I sure can't.

 

[sleeperpick]

Regardless of level of competition, name 1 player that is playing better now than in November. I sure can't.

To be fair Oduro. And mar. But mar looked like he couldn’t play on our shitty women’s team in November.

 

[FreeGunston12]

To be fair Oduro. And mar. But mar looked like he couldn’t play on our shitty women’s team in November.

Maybe Oduro. Maybe. Or maybe you just weren't ready to accept that he wasn't absolute garbage yet in November.

 

[tblack33]

To be fair Oduro. And mar. But mar looked like he couldn’t play on our shitty women’s team in November.

Oduro for sure, I’m still waiting to see Mar string this together before I’m sold he’s back. He needs to have a good tournament for me to feel comfortable that these last two haven’t been a fluke. I’m not sold yet after how the other 28 games went for him this year.