A10 Coaching Carousel

[MasonSAE4]

Man Derek Kellogg lasted 9 seasons? Can we get him back as like head of scouting or something? It's clear he's a garbage coach and probably won't field many offers but he left that team some shooters.

 

[KAOriginal]

vcu's investment in program infrastructure and ability to maintain continuity from one coach to the next has been a much greater factor in its success than the HAVOC brand.

They have been consistently successful enough that quality players and coaches want to be there. When one leaves another takes his place. Wash, rinse, repeat.

As pointed out.....BRANDING was and is our failure. (And for many schools who see athletics as a side door to the University!)

And branding also includes program infrastructure, continuity, etc. EVERYTHING is done with a the BRAND in mind. It's not just HAVOC....its is "vcu Basketball".

Despite the name tweaks.....vcu has been branding their basketball program since McMcCarthy and Barkley gave a shit ton of $ to give them a state of the art locker room at the time. Aggressive, young, cutting edge, ethnic....all long before Shaka.

You don't walk into a sh*tty Mercedes dealership complete with crappy desks and service technicians in cut off wrangler shorts. The Mercedes salesman wear suits, stay at dealerships longer and are a cut above your Dodge salesman.

 

[patriot2000]

vcu's investment in program infrastructure and ability to maintain continuity from one coach to the next has been a much greater factor in its success than the HAVOC brand.

They have been consistently successful enough that quality players and coaches want to be there. When one leaves another takes his place. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I'd argue that it's both, in equal balance, and one has depended on the other

 

[patriot2000]

Don't forget that part of their investment on infrastructure comes from their much large number of donations and ticket sales. When we had both, we were on our way down the same road.

 

[gmujim92]

As pointed out.....BRANDING was and is our failure. (And for many schools who see athletics as a side door to the University!)

And branding also includes program infrastructure, continuity, etc. EVERYTHING is done with a the BRAND in mind. It's not just HAVOC its the program. Though a little bit different...vcu has been branding their basketball program since Capel: aggressive, young, ethnic....long before Shaka.

You don't walk into a sh*tty Mercedes dealership complete with crappy desks and service technicians in cut off wrangler shorts. The Mercedes salesman wear suits, stay at dealerships longer and are a cut above your Dodge salesman.

Not arguing that Mason has sucked at branding, but not having a list of competent head coaches to bring in after L left was a far bigger failure.

Mason was a VERY attractive job in 2011. TOC had a slew of coaches to choose from and still hired Hewitt.

End of f*cking story.

 

[gmujim92]

I'd argue that it's both, in equal balance, and one has depended on the other

They already had started winning consistently under Capel and Grant before Shaka came in and started the Havoc stuff.

Hire good coaches and win games and that becomes your brand.

 

[patriot2000]

They already had started winning consistently under Capel and Grant before Shaka came in and started the Havoc stuff.

Hire good coaches and win games and that becomes your brand.

We were winning consistently in the exact same time frame. And I truly believe that better branding would have made a difference in continuing that winning. Maybe more donor and ticket support means practice facility and higher assistant salary - keeping L and Hancock - and continuing the success.

You say it's coaching, I say it's coachingand recruiting, both of which were helped by branding - vcu being a more attractive job than Mason.

And branding made them nationally prominent which is why they have made a couple of NCAAT in that 8 year run they didn't really deserve. You make many good points but then insult people's basketball knowledge if they disagree. I don't dispute your basketball knowledge but if you think vcu's brand has made no difference to the selection committee, I do question one aspect of your knowledge. You know the X's and Os of this sport much better than I do, but I am slightly questioning whether you know the business as well as I thought.

We're really not disagreeing, and I did say in my original post that being nationally relevant would negate the branding argument. You, though, are digging in and refusing to accept the possibility that branding had something to do with that success.

 

[gmujim92]

We were winning consistently in the exact same time frame. And I truly believe that better branding would have made a difference in continuing that winning. Maybe more donor and ticket support means practice facility and higher assistant salary - keeping L and Hancock - and continuing the success.

You say it's coaching, I say it's coachingand recruiting, both of which were helped by branding - vcu being a more attractive job than Mason.

And branding made them nationally prominent which is why they have made a couple of NCAAT in that 8 year run they didn't really deserve. You make many good points but then insult people's basketball knowledge if they disagree. I don't dispute your basketball knowledge but if you think vcu's brand has made no difference to the selection committee, I do question one aspect of your knowledge. You know the X's and Os of this sport much better than I do, but I am slightly questioning whether you know the business as well as I thought.

We're really not disagreeing, and I did say in my original post that being nationally relevant would negate the branding argument. You, though, are digging in and refusing to accept the possibility that branding had something to do with that success.

I don't mean to be disagreeable. I thought I admitted they have kicked our asses in the branding department. No argument whatsoever.

I just think all the branding in the world means little unless you back it up by winning consistently.

vcu has made seven consecutive NCAAs. Do you think anyone realizes they've been to the same number of Sweet 16s as Mason?

 

[patriot2000]

I don't mean to be disagreeable. I thought I admitted they have kicked our asses in the branding department. No argument whatsoever.

I just think all the branding in the world means little unless you back it up by winning consistently.

vcu has made seven consecutive NCAAs. Do you think anyone realizes they've been to the same number of Sweet 16s as Mason?

Sadly, no. No one knows what we know about the gimmick that is havoc. It I think that's my point. They have "branded" (sorry, dead horse, but I don't know another word) themselves out of that mattering. So they can continue to fool the committee, recruits, and coaching candidates.

We're talking in circles because we agree more than disagree and we're having an unprovable chicken and egg argument.

It's not that you're disagreeable; that's what we're here for! But sometimes I think you are a little insulting - which is cool if that's your online thing. I think 99% of the time it's frustration with idiots and trolls and sometimes it gets directed at the wrong people. For the record, I didn't feel you did that to me, but within this thread there's examples you can find.

No worries; I'm certainly not the board police and this would be a much worse place without your posts. Just tipsyly pointing out something I've noticed.

 

[MasonSAE4]

Sadly, no. No one knows what we know about the gimmick that is havoc. It I think that's my point. They have "branded" (sorry, dead horse, but I don't know another word) themselves out of that mattering. So they can continue to fool the committee, recruits, and coaching candidates.

We're talking in circles because we agree more than disagree and we're having an unprovable chicken and egg argument.

It's not that you're disagreeable; that's what we're here for! But sometimes I think you are a little insulting - which is cool if that's your online thing. I think 99% of the time it's frustration with idiots and trolls and sometimes it gets directed at the wrong people. For the record, I didn't feel you did that to me, but within this thread there's examples you can find.

No worries; I'm certainly not the board police and this would be a much worse place without your posts. Just tipsyly pointing out something I've noticed.

I for one love the disagreement. Take a look at vcu's boards. It's the biggest circle jerk of all time. You could tell them their new coach was Hewitt, that they're gonna have to play next season in the dining hall, and that Trump is gonna be their new assistant AD for communications and they would tell you you're an idiot for thinking they won't run the table. Most of them actually believe their entire recruiting class is staying put.

 

[Mason Addict]

True story, at 12/31/15, my company was on a 3-year consecutive revenue decline. On 01/01/16, we executed 50% reduction in the Marketing/BD department and the revenue actually grew for the first time at the end of 2016.

My point? 1. Marketing/BD means shit when you are not winning or growing 2. Maybe the Marketing dept in Mason needs to lay off a few heads, sometimes people needs a little push to try harder

I remember reading somewhere that Mason is ranked one of most employee friendly places (or something like that) to work which means we probably never lay off people and people can get overly comfortable in a work place like that.

 

[GMUgemini]

The most annoying thing is since vcu joined the CAA, all of its success has been at our expense.

2004 (Finals: vcu 55, GMU 54 -- Jai Lewis rims out at the buzzer to lose the championship -- Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm pretty sure it was Jai Lewis who missed the winning shot).

2007 (Finals: vcu 65, GMU 59 -- Jordan Carter gets sandwiched by two vcu players, goes down, Gabe Norwood gets Eric Maynored, and we immediately begin to lose our Final Four cachet)

2008 (W&M mercifully upsets vcu on its way to many disappointing second place finishes)

2009 (Finals: vcu 71, GMU 50 -- Eric Maynored again).

2011 (Semifinals: vcu 79, GMU 63 -- Andre Cornelius runs his mouth, we get destroyed, vcu runs to the final four).

All of these games, of course, happened in Richmond with overwhelmingly vcu partisan crowds.

 

[Patriotsince81]

It's going to be another VERY LONG off season on the boards.

 

[GSII]

Havoc is not their brand anymore bc Wade pushed it aside. Their brand is three letters. vcu. They win more, make more, and have more butts in the seats bc they saw how not to manage a post Final Four run.

There is nobody here to blame other than Merten and TOC. By not reinvesti g in the Old Cuban, they cost Mason millions. May they both burn in hell.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

Havoc is not their brand anymore bc Wade pushed it aside. Their brand is three letters. vcu. They win more, make more, and have more butts in the seats bc they saw how not to manage a post Final Four run.

There is nobody here to blame other than Merten and TOC. By not reinvesti g in the Old Cuban, they cost Mason millions. May they both burn in hell.

The good news is they are both gone and we have new leadership that will leverage success more effectively.
Stop looking backwards and look forwards.

We are starting to sound like chicks with sand in the vagina syndrome.

 

[Walter]

The good news is they are both gone and we have new leadership that will leverage success more effectively.
Stop looking backwards and look forwards.

We are starting to sound like chicks with sand in the vagina syndrome.

Fair point. But I will take my hatred of TOC to my deathbed.

 

[Five Two]

Maybe another A10 school can fire/lose a coach so we'll have something to talk about on this thread...

 

[p8triotfan4life]

I didn't want to create a new thread but we are pulling in more money for our 10-year naming rights deal with Eagle Bank vs. vcu.

We signed a 10-year $6.6 million pact with Eagle Bank (just finished year 2). We have another 10-year option worth $6.6 million with them once this current 10-year pact expires.

vcu on the other hand signed a 10-year, $2.75 million pact with the Wade family for the Seigel Center
http://vcuathletics.com/general/2016-17/releases/20160929k2nufs

 

[Patriot8]

I didn't want to create a new thread but we are pulling in more money for our 10-year naming rights deal with Eagle Bank vs. vcu.

We signed a 10-year $6.6 million pact with Eagle Bank (just finished year 2). We have another 10-year option worth $6.6 million with them once this current 10-year pact expires.

vcu on the other hand signed a 10-year, $2.75 million pact with the Wade family for the Seigel Center
http://vcuathletics.com/general/2016-17/releases/20160929k2nufs

True, however i'd imagine that EagleBank wouldn't be spending that much money if it was called "EagleBank Arena at the Patriot Center".

 

[Vurbel]

I never doubted the wisdom of moving to the A 10. I only doubted the wisdom of hiring the Virus in the first place. We would not have fallen so far had we been more patient with our hire after Coach L left.

But we had to make a "splash."