Where Are They Now?

[GMUgemini]

LOL as we see from teams in the A10 you don't have to recruit all D2 kids your first year.... thats just a Paulsen thing not the norm..

If you fire a guy in March, he'll have recruits who have signed LOIs before then. You have a choice...accept the offer or tell them to take a hike -- the latter is not a good look. That's what I'm saying. Maybe you don't try that hard to retain them, but if 8 guys leave because your AD is cheap that's pretty rough on any coach, I don't care who you are (you're also signaling to the next guy that you'll do the bare minimum, but they won't really have your back).

The only argument anyone is giving me to lame duck Paulsen if this season is a bust is because we're going to be cheap...at that point, you might as well just leave the conference and go down a level.

 

[FreeGunston12]

If you fire a guy in March, he'll have recruits who have signed LOIs before then. You have a choice...accept the offer or tell them to take a hike -- the latter is not a good look. That's what I'm saying. Maybe you don't try that hard to retain them, but if 8 guys leave because your AD is cheap that's pretty rough on any coach, I don't care who you are (you're also signaling to the next guy that you'll do the bare minimum, but they won't really have your back).

The only argument anyone is giving me to lame duck Paulsen if this season is a bust is because we're going to be cheap...at that point, you might as well just leave the conference and go down a level.

Not bad enough to pay his buyout. Not good enough to extend him. We are talking about a business decision in a pandemic. There probably will not even be a season. So what do you do then? Can't fire him now. Can't extend him based on last season.

You can't even make up your mind about what you want to do with him. Which is it? Fire or extend?

But no - we have to rule out lame ducking him. That option has to be off the table. Because we have to extend or fire a guy that we can't decide if we should extend or fire.

 

[sleeperpick]

If you fire a guy in March, he'll have recruits who have signed LOIs before then. You have a choice...accept the offer or tell them to take a hike -- the latter is not a good look. That's what I'm saying. Maybe you don't try that hard to retain them, but if 8 guys leave because your AD is cheap that's pretty rough on any coach, I don't care who you are (you're also signaling to the next guy that you'll do the bare minimum, but they won't really have your back).

The only argument anyone is giving me to lame duck Paulsen if this season is a bust is because we're going to be cheap...at that point, you might as well just leave the conference and go down a level.

If we suck next year (anything worse than 7th realistically although he should be fired regardless unless we go top 3 because he has proven he is way over his head) he needs to be fired directly after our last game. The problem is BE is kind of a pu$$y it seems and loves what Dave is doing to the program (helping keep it irrelevant and CAA level) so most people don't think he will fire him regardless of next year because 1. Brad kinda sucks at his own job and should be shit canned. 2. New President might want time to review Paulsen (dumb) 3. Mason can't afford two salaries for the 2021 year because they are cheap as f**k and don't give a shit about basketball. 4. Paulsen has had 0 arrests and good grades with good kids and the entire society is getting soft with what it means to be competitive.

I agree with you you either need to fire the coach or sign him (under no circumstances would I sign him). Mason is just a pit of mediocrity right now and they NEVER make the right decisions. Brad can only put lipstick on a pig for so long without remembering it is indeed a suckling pig with a Diet MD addiction that can't recruit nor coach in game. I have less faith in Brad making a good decision than I do Paulsen and lord knows how much I hate Paulsen.

I do agree we might as well move back down to CAA because I don't want it to get to the point where we have Lasalle or Fordham apathy and I feel like we are almost there... I hope those free tickets they give to the local elementary schools help with the budgets because donations have seemingly gone down (day of giving) and apathy is at Hewitt levels for anyone with a sack

 

[sleeperpick]

Not bad enough to pay his buyout. Not good enough to extend him. We are talking about a business decision in a pandemic. There probably will not even be a season. So what do you do then? Can't fire him now. Can't extend him based on last season.

You can't even make up your mind about what you want to do with him. Which is it? Fire or extend?

But no - we have to rule out lame ducking him. That option has to be off the table. Because we have to extend or fire a guy that we can't decide if we should extend or fire.

I get your premise and I partly agree especially because of pandemic... but this is pretty uncharted territory IMO. lame ducking doesn't seem to ever go well

 

[GMUgemini]

Not bad enough to pay his buyout. Not good enough to extend him. We are talking about a business decision in a pandemic. There probably will not even be a season. So what do you do then? Can't fire him now. Can't extend him based on last season.

You can't even make up your mind about what you want to do with him. Which is it? Fire or extend?

But no - we have to rule out lame ducking him. That option has to be off the table. Because we have to extend or fire a guy that we can't decide if we should extend or fire.

It's not my job to make the decision. I posted in another thread that if he finishes worse than 10-8 in conference next season, I'd fire him -- that's my metric. If he finishes 10-8 or better, extend him one year and see if he can actually build from that point (I've been pretty generous with the injuries as the cause of the disappointment of the last two seasons, but he's got to prove that his recruiting has gotten better -- like I said before, Kolek, Polite, Henry, Frazier are on the hook their sophomore seasons for being contributors and looking like A-10 talent).

If the season is canceled, I think you have to extend him one more year because he didn't get last season to prove anything.

 

[FreeGunston12]

It's not my job to make the decision. I posted in another thread that if he finishes worse than 10-8 in conference next season, I'd fire him -- that's my metric. If he finishes 10-8 or better, extend him one year and see if he can actually build from that point.

If the season is canceled, I think you have to extend him one more year because he didn't get last season to prove anything.

I guess I'm just operating under the assumption that there will not be a season. In which case, I really don't think Mason owes it to Paulsen to give him 1 more year just because.

If there is a season, obviously you'll have more information and can make the decision then.

If he has his average season (16-16, 8-10, 8th place), and the university can afford it then I would say fire him as well.

 

[Patriot8]

By recruit, I mean anyone with any decent offers. So yeah if we want to straddle the next coach with a Danny Dixon or Kam Murrell, lame duck him.

And here’s the other thing, if the AD doesn’t have confidence in the coach to do the job and we are just being cheap, what makes us think Miller, Hartwell, XJ, Polite or anyone else wants to stick around for a crap season?

All 4 of the current players you just named would love to play for Coach Tony Skinn. Additionally, Skinn is a young, relatable, relevant guy who has a history of success recruiting the DC area. I’m sure he’d be able to recruit out of the gate.

 

[gmujim92]

I guess I'm just operating under the assumption that there will not be a season. In which case, I really don't think Mason owes it to Paulsen to give him 1 more year just because.

I’m not a contracts attorney, but if the season is cancelled because of COVID I’d be surprised if that year didn’t roll over on Dave’s deal. It would be the nightmare scenario: lose a season when we finally have a veteran team, then be stuck going into another rebuild. I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen.

 

[GMUgemini]

All 4 of the current players you just named would love to play for Coach Tony Skinn. Additionally, Skinn is a young, relatable, relevant guy who has a history of success recruiting the DC area. I’m sure he’d be able to recruit out of the gate.

Hartwell and Miller will have graduated by 2022, this would be all of them transferring out for 2021.

 

[gmujim92]

All 4 of the current players you just named would love to play for Coach Tony Skinn. Additionally, Skinn is a young, relatable, relevant guy who has a history of success recruiting the DC area. I’m sure he’d be able to recruit out of the gate.

I love Tony as much as the next person, but there’s a lot more to running a program than recruiting. Hiring a guy who has never been a head coach on any level would come with major risk even if he’s an alum.

 

[sleeperpick]

I’m not a contracts attorney, but if the season is cancelled because of COVID I’d be surprised if that year didn’t roll over on Dave’s deal. It would be the nightmare scenario: lose a season when we finally have a veteran team, then be stuck going into another rebuild. I sincerely hope that doesn’t happen.

I mean he’s getting paid regardless so not sure that would even make sense unless he takes the year off from pay as well

 

[sleeperpick]

I love Tony as much as the next person, but there’s a lot more to running a program than recruiting. Hiring a guy who has never been a head coach on any level would come with major risk even if he’s an alum.

I’d bet a good amount of money you aren’t much of a thrill seeker. This dud we currently have that we know can’t recruit or coach is less of a risk than Tony Skinn?

 

[Patriot8]

I love Tony as much as the next person, but there’s a lot more to running a program than recruiting. Hiring a guy who has never been a head coach on any level would come with major risk even if he’s an alum.

It’s a risk that more and more teams are taking, with a decent degree of success. We’ve tried the failed Power 5 coach, we’ve tried the mildly successful Low Major coach, now it’s time for young, up and coming assistant. This program once gave Rick Barnes a chance.

 

[GMUgemini]

It’s a risk that more and more teams are taking, with a decent degree of success. We’ve tried the failed Power 5 coach, we’ve tried the mildly successful Low Major coach, now it’s time for young, up and coming assistant. This program once gave Rick Barnes a chance.

To be fair, the last mildly successful low major coach we hired before Paulsen was Coach Larranaga...

But I'd be down for giving Tony Skinn a runout (I think I was the first to suggest it on these boards, in fact) -- and Jim, Skinn was basically a player coach for the Nigerian team that qualified for the Olympics (I think he downplayed his role in getting that team qualified in the interview). He's been an assistant for 6 years. He deserves a shot at this point.

Konkol wouldn't be a bad hire either, if you want to go with the experienced coaching route, but getting him to leave LA Tech is going to take some coin (although, he's make $400k there, so maybe it'll take less than I think). 60% winning percentage in a much better conference than Patriot.

Both of these guys have connections to GMU, and if we were in search of a coach should at least get an interview.

 

[tblack33]

Couple of thoughts on this:

1. No way Paulsens contract has any stipulations on no games not counting towards his contract. The way these contracts are written are just like any other employment contract, he’s employed at Mason athletics through 1 April of his contract year. That’s it. Like sleeper said, it’s not like he’s not getting paid right now. He didn’t give money back after the A10 tourney got canceled.

2. For everyone talking finances, have we thought that it doesn’t necessarily have to cost us more money to move on? Paulsen’s base is 400 per year, his buyout is 200. If he gets that as a lump sum then someone needs to give me his agents number because he’s a wizard. Most of this money gets spread over 5-10 years, ala Hewitt getting paid by GT after we fired him. I’m telling you, Tony Skinn (or someone in his mood, young assistant) doesn’t cost what Paulsen costs. Paulsens total compensation before performance incentives is 750k. Skinn (or a young high major assistant) isn’t commanding 750k for his first job. I see a lot of scenarios where we break even on the money side spreading the payout and bringing in a cheaper HC.

3. Does anyone have an example of a lame duck coach working out for the program? We’ve seen it happen multiple times where it blows up in the programs face, I can’t think of a single example of it working out long term. This absolutely can not be an option for a program playing in the A10. That’s some Southland conference BS.

 

[Pablo]

It’s a risk that more and more teams are taking, with a decent degree of success. We’ve tried the failed Power 5 coach, we’ve tried the mildly successful Low Major coach, now it’s time for young, up and coming assistant. This program once gave Rick Barnes a chance.

How about an older and more experienced assistant than Tony with head coaching experience by the name of Duane Simpkins?

 

[gmujim92]

I’d bet a good amount of money you aren’t much of a thrill seeker. This dud we currently have that we know can’t recruit or coach is less of a risk than Tony Skinn?

Yes. Hiring a coach like Paulsen comes with less risk but also less upside. That’s the point.

 

[sleeperpick]

Yes. Hiring a coach like Paulsen comes with less risk but also less upside. That’s the point.

What about no upside? Because to you wins and losses are all that matters

 

[tblack33]

How about an older and more experienced assistant than Tony with head coaching experience by the name of Duane Simpkins?

I love Duane, and I think at the absolute least he deserves an interview, but I don’t see him getting the job unless somehow Paulsen gets fired mid season because a scandal breaks that he was throwing games to make money gambling to fund his diet dew habit. I can’t think of a situation of an associate head coach taking over for a fired head coach the following season, but it’s honestly a unique situation.

I’d like to see an actual search for our next coach. Interview Tony, interview Duane, search out 5 other dudes with similar resumes, and go from there.

 

[sleeperpick]

Yes. Hiring a coach like Paulsen comes with less risk but also less upside. That’s the point.

Btw gotta give you a shoutout. I see you replying to recruits on twitter. Not as good of a baker as swimom and not around at all like swimdad but you’re doing gods work on Tweeter