Hewitt, Extension, wait, what?

[wijg]

Psyclone, I used to be naive and believe all those things you have stated above. It is a nice theory. It is just unfortunate that it does not work that way.

Unfortunately I got very close to GMU and the inner workings and it isn't pretty at all. Don't get me wrong, GMU isn't any worse than other universities, and from what I have gathered (admittedly anecdotal) GMU is one of the better ones, which is a sad statement, indeed.

I agree with you on one thing, the adjunct professors are great. Except for Walter Williams, all my best professors were adjuncts. So why not populate a school with those and not have to pay the overhead for the vaunted researchers.

The thing that is implied by your statement above is that new knowledge has to come from the research of university professors. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the knowledge of the world come from none university settings where people are applying themselves cost effectively to the problems the world needs resolved versus professors in their ivory towers pontificating about things. As KA pointed, university educations have become a huge rip off. I will encourage my kids and anyone who asks to get the cheapest degree you can get (because unfortunately it is a requirement for so many jobs). Save the money you would have spent on an expensive degree and use it to invest in yourself or a business.

 

[GMUgemini]

Psyclone, I used to be naive and believe all those things you have stated above. It is a nice theory. It is just unfortunate that it does not work that way.

Unfortunately I got very close to GMU and the inner workings and it isn't pretty at all. Don't get me wrong, GMU isn't any worse than other universities, and from what I have gathered (admittedly anecdotal) GMU is one of the better ones, which is a sad statement, indeed.

I agree with you on one thing, the adjunct professors are great. Except for Walter Williams, all my best professors were adjuncts. So why not populate a school with those and not have to pay the overhead for the vaunted researchers.

The thing that is implied by your statement above is that new knowledge has to come from the research of university professors. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most of the knowledge of the world come from none university settings where people are applying themselves cost effectively to the problems the world needs resolved versus professors in their ivory towers pontificating about things. As KA pointed, university educations have become a huge rip off. I will encourage my kids and anyone who asks to get the cheapest degree you can get (because unfortunately it is a requirement for so many jobs). Save the money you would have spent on an expensive degree and use it to invest in yourself or a business.

If you peopled all universities with nothing but adjunct professors and paid them what adjuncts currently make (at the best universities that's about $26,000 a year teaching a full load 4/4) with no benefits -- no health insurance, no retirement (401k or pension), the American university would die very quickly.

And I would also say that your notion of research at the university level and in university labs is old: most research grants have to show some kind of an ROI in order to be funded. It's why a lot of scientists are leaving science, because they feel like they can't radically challenge the status quo or question current modes of thinking. Monetizing everything is destroying inquiry.

 

[phoenix-arizona]

Adjuncts represent ! (being an adjunct is great but not the easiest way to make a living).

 

[KAOriginal]

If you peopled all universities with nothing but adjunct professors and paid them what adjuncts currently make (at the best universities that's about $26,000 a year teaching a full load 4/4) with no benefits -- no health insurance, no retirement (401k or pension), the American university would die very quickly.

I disagree. Essentially you just described Community College. And I bet most places like here in Maine, the community colleges can't keep up with demand, thanks to their cost effectiveness.

What I find the problem to be is academics have turned higher education into its own protected kingdom thanks to a free flow of money by student loans. T hey'll create degrees for anything and everything, build buildings out to wazoo, and god knows what else.

-Academics: "OMG we cant cut funding to universities."

-Yes you can. Focus on a strict mission to educate and cut the crap. Cut programs that aren't graduating a certain amount of students per year. Stop having 80 deans to include Dean of Transexual MultiCulturism. Stop the madness of spending just because. Except for specialties, the reality is the employment sector does not value the degree to the extent you charge for it.

I use this example all the time. A few years ago I had to A&P. 3x a week for 4 months (A&P 1 only) By the time you count tuition, fees (parking, technology, etc etc) and time lost from work...the class ran me about $900. Yet I could A&P 1 and 2 on DVD, taught by a PhD from "The Great Courses"..for $80. So I feel Southern Maine Community College over-charged me by $820.....

 

[phoenix-arizona]

I'm in the minority I know here, but I would rather see all sports cut before academic programs cut. Universities and colleges exist to give educations in a variety of fields and disciplines. Not to put on college athletics.

 

[KAOriginal]

They do. But they cant be there for everyone.

If Mason spends more than a $1 to maintain the Folklore and Mythology or World Music Minor, the place should be shut down.

 

[GMUgemini]

They do. But they cant be there for everyone.

If Mason spends more than a $1 to maintain the Folklore and Mythology or World Music Minor, the place should be shut down.

Why are these unworthy of study for you?

Your first mistake is thinking that what corporations value in their employees is what we should value in our education. This is worse than saying we should teach to the test.

 

[phoenix-arizona]

One dollar? If there is interest and enough demand for a major, the college or university should offer it, esp if no one else in the area offers that major.

 

[GSII]

Which one is true? One is.

Edwards not thrilled with mens bball approach in preperation. Players excluded.

TOC farted in Edwards' office and fan the fumes while chugging a pale ale.

 

[KAOriginal]

One dollar? If there is interest and enough demand for a major, the college or university should offer it, esp if no one else in the area offers that major.

My point is...is it cost effective?

Again following what happened here in Maine, academics would offer majors even if 1 out of 32k students are taking it.

At some point you have to draw the line.

 

[KAOriginal]

Why are these unworthy of study for you?

Your first mistake is thinking that what corporations value in their employees is what we should value in our education. This is worse than saying we should teach to the test.

They are not unworthy of study, I just wonder what one does with a minor like that. There are many many other examples that could be used.

Following your logic, if we take the premise disconnecting what corporate world values vs what we value in education, then one could argue we need no such thing as majors and minors really, and just make a "university degree" with broad ranges of study to show you have advanced education.

Hey, if enough students want it...then great. But academics tend to hold onto anything and everything like the government. Once its created, IT MUST STAY no matter what.

 

[psyclone]

They are not unworthy of study, I just wonder what one does with a minor like that. There are many many other examples that could be used. .....

In my experience in the university, minors that are added are typically cobbled together from courses that are already offered. In putting forth the proposal for a new major or minor, one of questions asked is where are the resources for this proposal coming from as well as anticipated enrollment. I'm sure that in these days of budget cutbacks (where searches to replace retired faculty have been delayed for two or more years), deans and administrators are particularly sensitive to that and would be unlikely to approve a proposal that is asking for more resources.

At least that's been my sense of how things are run at Mason. I can't speak for how it's done at other institutions, but I would think that nearly all state universities (not just in Virginia ) are suffering from diminished support from the state government. Indeed it is the latter factor that's responsible for much of the increase in tuition in the past decade or so.

 

[psyclone]

For more detail on this point, see this from Cabrera's blog about 2 yrs ago:

http://president.gmu.edu/2012/11/the-social-contract-of-publc-higher-education

 

[KAOriginal]

At least that's been my sense of how things are run at Mason. I can't speak for how it's done at other institutions, but I would think that nearly all state universities (not just in Virginia ) are suffering from diminished support from the state government. Indeed it is the latter factor that's responsible for much of the increase in tuition in the past decade or so.

So here comes the rub in terms of social compact and efficiency:

Is the State of Virginia better off spending $80 per student, TO ANYBODY that wants an Anatomy and Physiology Course on DVD taught by a PhD.

Or funding numerous universities to teach it, but only reaching a select few who can afford the tuition to go and study it at the University in a brick and mortar setting with a TA?

 

[polepino]

Which one is true? One is.

Edwards not thrilled with mens bball approach in preperation. Players excluded.

TOC farted in Edwards' office and fan the fumes while chugging a pale ale.

This based on facts?

 

[Raider_SPE]

$25 million total to build a building that will serve 2 athletic teams.

They raised $15 million, but stalled there and didn't want to wait to get started, so they're paying the remainder from student fee revenue.

Jim, what is the word around town on this. http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/02/investing/lumber-liquidators-60-minutes/index.html

 

[GSII]

Jim, what is the word around town on this. http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/02/investing/lumber-liquidators-60-minutes/index.html

We obviously can't play at vcu saturday. LL is a sponsor and probably provided the wood floor too. game should be moved to Fairfax, where our wood is naturally hard.

 

[The Great PATSby]

We obviously can't play at vcu saturday. LL is a sponsor and probably provided the wood floor too. game should be moved to Fairfax, where our wood is naturally hard.

No wonder the ball bounces so high and loud when Jalen Jenkins dribbles!!!!!

 

[gmujim92]

Jim, what is the word around town on this. http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/02/investing/lumber-liquidators-60-minutes/index.html

I heard rumors that something bad was coming down the pike for Lumber Liquidators around the time that it signed the sponsorship deal with vcu.

Sure hope vcu wasn't planning to install the company's laminate flooring in its new practice facility. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

Good debate.

When I was in class at Mason there were many things that I learned from the professors that taught me there, but a lot I also had to learn on the mean streets of Fairfax and the sidewalks late at night outside the Commonwealth and the Dominion.

Sports are very important for a well-rounded individuals but so are the academics as well. I am feeling that as a graduate of George Mason I am just as likely outsmart my enemies as I am to beet them overs the head with the athletic prowess I learned from being one of Mason's best-known intramural athletes in its history.