Game 9: University of Pennsylvania, Saturday, Dec 5th, 6 PM, NO TV

[GMU92]

Sounds like an attitude left over from the virus.

Patrick was one of my sister's favorite players and she told me when she spoke to him at the open practice before the season that he seemed to "have an attitude", which she found unusual. I guess intuition kicked in that something wasn't going right there. I hope for his sake that he can right the ship, but it seems like DP might be quite comfortable with his remaining group of veterans and developing the new guys.

 

[GMUgemini]

I feel bad for Pat. I don't know if this is the case, but he's the perfect person to make an example of. Any smart coach realizes that their players development is more important for the long term stability of their career than working on their predecessor's players. Setting an example and getting your players valuable PT is almost a win/win.

He had the luxury of sitting Pat on the bench against Penn because we didn't need any bench production. As much as Paulsen wants to laud Abram and Murrell's defensive efforts, we can't rely on them to score if we need points from them.

Does anybody else think Paulsen is being a little too hard on Pat?

 

[psyclone]

Worth noting--post game extra is available including the press conference and it actually is working smoothly! Kudos to them for fixing whatever the problem was.

 

[psyclone]

He had the luxury of sitting Pat on the bench against Penn because we didn't need any bench production. As much as Paulsen wants to laud Abram and Murrell's defensive efforts, we can't rely on them to score if we need points from them.

Does anybody else think Paulsen is being a little too hard on Pat?

I think it's hard for us to tell without being privy to what's happened in practice. Patrick presents a non-controversial demeanor on the floor and that may lead us to think Paulsen is being too tough on him.

I think that it's clear that Paulsen has definite expectations of the players and is not shy about enforcing his standards. So what seems as unduly harsh by us (without knowing the extent of the "offense") may be standard operating procedure for him.

 

[Dawgs99]

He had the luxury of sitting Pat on the bench against Penn because we didn't need any bench production. As much as Paulsen wants to laud Abram and Murrell's defensive efforts, we can't rely on them to score if we need points from them.

Does anybody else think Paulsen is being a little too hard on Pat?

Pat is the only Hewitt hold over that seems to be having a problem picking up what DP is putting down...this to me, says more about Pat then it does about DP.

 

[gmujim92]

Does anybody else think Paulsen is being a little too hard on Pat?

Not at all.

The obligation is on the player to fulfill expectations on and off the court. Paulsen has shown that he's willing to play everyone who is willing to work hard and follow instructions ... Getting a big fat DNP-CD in the scorebook tells us that Pat is still falling short in the coach's eyes.

Also, when you have a senior and a freshman essentially battling for the same spot, unless it's decisive in favor of the senior, you play the young guy and build for the future.

Frankly Holloway's offense is not that critical to this team because he's at best a net zero -- score 8, give up 8 with lousy defense. Unless that changes, expect to see Murrell playing and Pat sitting.

 

[Cedric Dempsey]

Brad Edwards got what he wanted in DP and Patrick may not have. Really simple in my opinion.

 

[gmutom]

Pat is the only Hewitt hold over that seems to be having a problem picking up what DP is putting down...this to me, says more about Pat then it does about DP.

Let's not forget that Porter, Lockett and Jackson bolted shortly after meeting Paulsen. I only want guys here and playing who buy in, but Patrick is hardly the first personality/philosophy conflict we've seen with Hewitt's recruits. And I would say the honeymoon is over between Paulsen and Thompson.

I get that Dave wants to bring in his own players and strict discipline -- the latter of which hardly existed with the former regime -- but I also hope the new players and holdovers are held to the same standard. If they are, then I have no problem at all with Patrick not playing.

 

[gmujim92]

Let's not forget that Porter, Lockett and Jackson bolted shortly after meeting Paulsen. I only want guys here and playing who buy in, but Patrick is hardly the first personality/philosophy conflict we've seen with Hewitt's recruits. And I would say the honeymoon is over between Paulsen and Thompson.

I get that Dave wants to bring in his own players and strict discipline -- the latter of which hardly existed with the former regime -- but I also hope the new players and holdovers are held to the same standard. If they are, then I have no problem at all with Patrick not playing.

I have zero doubt everyone is being held to the same standard, and am curious as to why you think that wouldn't be the case.

It could be as simple as Murrell and Abram give us things Paulsen values (defense, toughness, hustle) and Holloway doesn't.

Holloway is a good shooter who is a turnstile on defense. I had hoped he'd be far more than that at this point in his career, but the truth is, he didn't really bring a lot to the table even before his off-court issues.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

When a new leader comes to town he has to establish authority . Same as in business you are fair but tough. No one gets a free pass. Coach P plays the players he thinks will get the job done based on what he sees in practice. Patrick can sit down and pout or he can get the message and get in with the program.


Broads, Buicks, and Buckley

 

[GMUgemini]

I have zero doubt everyone is being held to the same standard, and am curious as to why you think that wouldn't be the case.

It could be as simple as Murrell and Abram give us things Paulsen values (defense, toughness, hustle) and Holloway doesn't.

Holloway is a good shooter who is a turnstile on defense. I had hoped he'd be far more than that at this point in his career, but the truth is, he didn't really bring a lot to the table even before his off-court issues.

Well, Grayer goes 0-15 in two games and doesn't get yanked.

Patrick Holloway gets suspended for 6 games for an offense that usually gets 1 (justification or not, 6 games was really harsh -- especially when you consider that the team was away in Charleston for 5 days and Patrick wasn't a part of that experience, so you've essentially made him an outsider).

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but for me I want to see if Paulsen can bring Holloway into the fold not just cast him aside. He might never be an elite defender, but is Marko?

Like I said, if Grayer or Moore or Otis is having a tough night, there's only one guard on our bench who we can turn to for points...and it's not Abram or Murrell at this point.

 

[gmujim92]

[QUOTE="GMUgemini, post: 49470, member: 9]I don't know what's going on behind the scenes[/QUOTE]

Neither do any of us -- and that means we all should probably refrain from speculating or attempting to pass judgment on the coach's personnel decisions, whether we agree with them or not.

It was wrong of me to suggest that Holloway was benched because he's a poor defender because I don't know that to be the case.

But I will say, if you think Grayer should be benched for having a couple tough games offensively, you know nothing about sports.

That kid is the future of our program. Why in the world would you do anything to damage his confidence and make him start looking over his shoulder as a freshman?

 

[gmutom]

I have zero doubt everyone is being held to the same standard, and am curious as to why you think that wouldn't be the case.

Jim, I'm not even trying to defend Patrick, because he showed these same issues under Hewitt (who really held nobody accountable other than Gray); but I do see Thompson being held to a different standard when he's yanked after one or two turnovers and others stay in after 4 or even 7. I'll be curious when Royal returns if he gets Dixon's minutes.

In Paulsen's defense, he is obviously coaching for the future while trying to win some games this year. It obviously doesn't help him to have to rely on players who won't be here next season, so yes I think he naturally prefers to give the younger players more PT and leeway.

I love our young guards and am excited about the next three years. If Holloway doesn't deserve to crack the rotation, so be it.

 

[Pablo]

That kid is the future of our program. Why in the world would you do anything to damage his confidence and make him start looking over his shoulder as a freshman?

I wouldn't worry about Jaire Grayer ever losing his confidence.

 

[gmu05]

Paulsen essentially said that most of the veterans on the roster were useless in his system before the season started. I will not be surprised when Holloway and Jenkins are fixtures on the bench more and more this season.

 

[GSII]

Paulsen essentially said that most of the veterans on the roster were useless in his system before the season started. I will not be surprised when Holloway and Jenkins are fixtures on the bench more and more this season.

As a teacher, DP should consider getting these two motivated to play. Their careers are winding down, so why not sit them down and stress the importance of making the most of their life right now. Imo, its a disgrace to make any kid feel like an outsider. Remember, "you didn't choose me, but I chose you".

 

[Pikapppatri8]

As a teacher, DP should consider getting these two motivated to play. Their careers are winding down, so why not sit them down and stress the importance of making the most of their life right now. Imo, its a disgrace to make any kid feel like an outsider. Remember, "you didn't choose me, but I chose you".

You assume that he isn't trying to teach them. But it is a two way street. He has to see their commitment in practice. It is all about attitude and performance.


Broads, Buicks, and Buckley

 

[Pablo]

You assume that he isn't trying to teach them. But it is a two way street. He has to see their commitment in practice. It is all about attitude and performance.

Well, here are the facts:

Jenkins has been an important player in the rotation all season; and
Holloway played 13 minutes and 17 minutes vs. Wright State and at Towson, respectively, after his 6-game suspension ended.

I believe that Coach Paulsen has an issue with Patrick that occurred after the Towson game. Like Pikapp, I'm guessing it's his commitment to practice. But, regardless, Patrick is a senior and he should understand what he needs to do to earn PT. If he remains on the bench, then I will assume that it's his attitude (and not his skill set).

 

[Vurbel]

Here's a crazy concept, when DP looks at basketball skills (passing, rebounding, defense, shooting, etc.) maybe the freshmen overall are just plain better?

 

[Pablo]

Here's a crazy concept, when DP looks at basketball skills (passing, rebounding, defense, shooting, etc.) maybe the freshmen overall are just plain better.

This could explain the distribution of PT, but not why Holloway was a DNP-CD in a game that saw action by both walk-ons.