Coaching Search Thread

[Patriot8]

This week we are all Beavers

Seriously I feel attacked. We/I need a Sweet 16 run. I’ll happily bow out to Illinois if we can manage to make it that far.

 

[gmujim92]

Given that he potentially could still be coaching at Tennessee for another month, I wonder if English has started quietly reaching out to the players to at least reassure them he’s coming ... surprised we haven’t seen more portal activity already, hopefully it’s a good sign

 

[gmubrian]

We’re definitely due for another good one

If we look at Georgia Tech and the TTRAHDYP (Time To Rebuild After Hewitt Destroys Your Program) factor:

• Now on their second coach and have just reached the NCAA tourney for the first time. This will be our second coach since Hewitt
• It has taken them ten years to get back to the NCAA tourney. This will be our seventh year. Hopefully we are on a better trajectory than that since Paulsen did better than Gregory in rebuilding after Hewitt.

One a tangent, did they luck out or what last year? The year they were banned from postseason play is the year there is no NCAA tourney.

 

[GMUgemini]

Seriously I feel attacked. We/I need a Sweet 16 run. I’ll happily bow out to Illinois if we can manage to make it that far.

I have Tennessee losing to Illinois in the Sweet 16.

 

[mkaufman1]

I have Tennessee losing to Illinois in the Sweet 16.

Same- thats what I am thinking too haha, we'll see how right we are

 

[Herndon]

It really is a low-risk scenario for him. He's 32 years old. If he crushes it, he'll have a P5 job waiting (maybe even Mizzou, which I'm assuming would be a dream job for him.) If he fails, he'll still be in his thirties. Can go back to being an assistant like others have done and wait for his next opportunity.

I have to be honest, I don't really care about his risk. Let me be clear, I would prefer to hire Kelsey or williford. I think they would be safer, better hires.

Because hiring a guy like English is, in fact pretty risky. He has no track record, so while he may absolutely work, in my opinion he's just as likely to absolutely fail.

I'm just saying that of all the very risky hires, he seems among the best bets.

Any young assistant without a long track record who has never been a head coach is a very risky hire. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't, but I think it's never better than a coin flip. You're just hoping that the increased risk brings with it the increased reward on the chance he does work out, because when those guys do work out, they tend to be rising stars.

 

[bravesfan]

I have to be honest, I don't really care about his risk. Let me be clear, I would prefer to hire Kelsey or williford. I think they would be safer, better hires.

Because hiring a guy like English is, in fact pretty risky. He has no track record, so while he may absolutely work, in my opinion he's just as likely to absolutely fail.

I'm just saying that of all the very risky hires, he seems among the best bets.

Any young assistant without a long track record who has never been a head coach is a very risky hire. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't, but I think it's never better than a coin flip. You're just hoping that the increased risk brings with it the increased reward on the chance he does work out, because when those guys do work out, they tend to be rising stars.

I don't think anyone is doubting it's a risky hire.

But Mason tried the "retread" route with Hewitt. Failed. Then tried the "established coach in a lower league" route with Paulsen. Failed.

So why not try the young assistant route? Can relate to recruits, their family, current players, etc. Pretty much guaranteed to bring some energy to the program. Knows what success looks like as a player, had a taste of the NBA; all benefits to recruiting. And the A10 is a recruiting league.

To be clear: I wouldn't be against Kelsey or some others. I just can't see how it's not Kim English unless some other program comes in late and grabs him at this point.

 

[G M U]

I have to be honest, I don't really care about his risk. Let me be clear, I would prefer to hire Kelsey or williford. I think they would be safer, better hires.

Because hiring a guy like English is, in fact pretty risky. He has no track record, so while he may absolutely work, in my opinion he's just as likely to absolutely fail.

I'm just saying that of all the very risky hires, he seems among the best bets.

Any young assistant without a long track record who has never been a head coach is a very risky hire. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't, but I think it's never better than a coin flip. You're just hoping that the increased risk brings with it the increased reward on the chance he does work out, because when those guys do work out, they tend to be rising stars.

Give me the potential for high upside. Paulsen was safe and that brought safe mediocre seasons. Take a big swing and if he flops, Brad is gone and we start this whole process over again in 4 years.

 

[Pablo]

I don't think anyone is doubting it's a risky hire.

But Mason tried the "retread" route with Hewitt. Failed. Then tried the "established coach in a lower league" route with Paulsen. Failed.

So why not try the young assistant route? Can relate to recruits, their family, current players, etc. Pretty much guaranteed to bring some energy to the program. Knows what success looks like as a player, had a taste of the NBA; all benefits to recruiting. And the A10 is a recruiting league.

To be clear: I wouldn't be against Kelsey or some others. I just can't see how it's not Kim English unless some other program comes in late and grabs him at this point.

So, what separates Kim Bishop from Tony Skinn?

 

[JPgmuswim]

I think it’s Kim English’ job based off of reading the tea leaves(Twitter) and his recent follows.
Risky? Yes, but after Paulsen English checks off a lot of boxes that I’ve been asking for. A young up incoming coach that can relate to his players/recruits and probably really wants to prove he can win. I would have equally been excited about Skinn but if neither player had ties to Mason I would say from what I’ve seen English comes off a little more polished.

I also believe if Kelsey is taking another job it’ll be for a school better than Mason.

As far as Williford is concerned why hasn’t he taken a head coaching job yet if he wants one? Hasn’t he been at UVA for over a decade?

 

[GMUgemini]

So, what separates Kim Bishop from Tony Skinn?

Depends on what you want.

Skinn has the Coach L connection (both as a player and an assistant coach with Konkol).

Kim English has the NBA on his resume and was an assistant at bigger programs (Colorado and Tennessee) and also with Rick Barnes.

Both have deep ties to the DMV and New York. English brings you deep ties to Detroit as well.

They both seem to have the same philosophy around individual player development (listen to Tony Skinn talk about that on Expat Hoops, Kim English in that press conference. I really liked Tony Skinn's ambition around recruiting (don't even look at kids who don't want to play at the next level), but also Kim English's answer about making sure recruits fit as a team and aren't just a collection of athletes.

So, honestly, I'd be happy to roll the dice with either one.

 

[gmujim92]

It sounds counterintuitive but Skinn being a Mason Final 4 hero might actually work against him in this case.

It’s awkward enough to have to fire an alumnus as coach when it doesn’t work out — imagine having to cut loose the guy whose game-winning shot secured the NCAA bid in 06.

I wouldn’t be surprised if neither Brad nor Dr. Washington are willing to roll the dice and risk putting themselves in that position.

 

[Patriot8]

So, what separates Kim Bishop from Tony Skinn?

I see them very equally. For me, Tony is above Kim strictly because of the Mason connection. Take that away, and I'd probably take Kim over Tony.

Kim has been around a little more talent than Tony has, and his relationships/network seem to be a bit broader. I think Tony might be a bit more entrenched in DMV circles, and due to his coaching stops he's developed relationships in the deep south, and now in the NYC-Philly corridor. Kim still has the background in the DMV, but as he alluded to in that presser some have watched, he can also pull from his time as a player/coach in the Midwest, Southwest, and now Southeast. He also has a working knowledge of the New England Prep Circuit, while Tony has his JUCO experience he can fall back on.

 

[Pablo]

To be clear, I would like to see either get the job. As a Tony Skinn fan, I just hope like his former Mason teammates that he gets a fair opportunity to compete for the position.

 

[Herndon]

I don't think anyone is doubting it's a risky hire.

But Mason tried the "retread" route with Hewitt. Failed. Then tried the "established coach in a lower league" route with Paulsen. Failed.

So why not try the young assistant route? Can relate to recruits, their family, current players, etc. Pretty much guaranteed to bring some energy to the program. Knows what success looks like as a player, had a taste of the NBA; all benefits to recruiting. And the A10 is a recruiting league.

To be clear: I wouldn't be against Kelsey or some others. I just can't see how it's not Kim English unless some other program comes in late and grabs him at this point.

I know I'm singularly alone in this, but honestly, I don't care. I'm right, and you're all wrong.

Paulsen didn't fail. He took us from a bottom of the barrel A10 team and stabilized us in the conference. There's no doubt we belong in the conference now, and we're a solid middle of the pack team.

We paid middle of the road money for Paulsen, and provided middle of the road resources.

To me, that's not "failing", it's delivering about what you'd expect.

To me, firing him means that we are looking for better, and that's fine, but if we're not willing to put better resources into the next hire, then we're setting him up to "fail".

I know a lot of people here are apparently fine with just rolling the dice over and over again until we happen to roll 11.

The whole "dave paulsen was a lower level coach and that doesn't work" is pretty lame logic, considering so was Larranaga.

To me, I'd VASTLY prefer Kelsey to English, but IF WE ARE GOING to go down the "roll the dice" road, English seems like the safest/best pick.

 

[Patriot8]

I know I'm singularly alone in this, but honestly, I don't care. I'm right, and you're all wrong.

Paulsen didn't fail. He took us from a bottom of the barrel A10 team and stabilized us in the conference. There's no doubt we belong in the conference now, and we're a solid middle of the pack team.

We paid middle of the road money for Paulsen, and provided middle of the road resources.

To me, that's not "failing", it's delivering about what you'd expect.

To me, firing him means that we are looking for better, and that's fine, but if we're not willing to put better resources into the next hire, then we're setting him up to "fail".

I know a lot of people here are apparently fine with just rolling the dice over and over again until we happen to roll 11.

The whole "dave paulsen was a lower level coach and that doesn't work" is pretty lame logic, considering so was Larranaga.

To me, I'd VASTLY prefer Kelsey to English, but IF WE ARE GOING to go down the "roll the dice" road, English seems like the safest/best pick.

Isn't it kind of a roll of the dice that Kelsey would show up to the press conference?

 

[Masonfan3]

It sounds counterintuitive but Skinn being a Mason Final 4 hero might actually work against him in this case.

It’s awkward enough to have to fire an alumnus as coach when it doesn’t work out — imagine having to cut loose the guy whose game-winning shot secured the NCAA bid in 06.

I wouldn’t be surprised if neither Brad nor Dr. Washington are willing to roll the dice and risk putting themselves in that position.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brad and Dr. Washington didn't even know who Tony was prior to all the tweets about him after firing DP. I say that half joking but I do know for a fact that a lot of the displeasure from the alumni during Coach L's days stem from the top of the Athletic Department. I believe that Isiah Tate coming back was a start but they have been pretty vocal to Brad privately and feel like their concerns have gone unnoticed. Some of the final 4 guys are pretty cocky but all of them feel like they put Mason on the map and should have more of a say in the program. I would be happy with either Tony or Kim, but if someone that doesn't have DMV ties is hired and no Mason alum are brought in as an assistant/into the Athletic Department, the flood gates might open from a few of L's guys.

 

[Pablo]

The whole "dave paulsen was a lower level coach and that doesn't work" is pretty lame logic, considering so was Larranaga.

Actually, when Coach L came to Mason in 1997 from Bowling Green, the MAC was comparable to the CAA.

 

[GMUgemini]

It sounds counterintuitive but Skinn being a Mason Final 4 hero might actually work against him in this case.

It’s awkward enough to have to fire an alumnus as coach when it doesn’t work out — imagine having to cut loose the guy whose game-winning shot secured the NCAA bid in 06.

I wouldn’t be surprised if neither Brad nor Dr. Washington are willing to roll the dice and risk putting themselves in that position.

DC United had to do this with Ben Olsen who was a club legend and had been there since 1998 as a player then an assistant then a head coach (something like 23 years).

 

[GMUgemini]

Actually, when Coach L came to Mason in 1997 from Bowling Green, the MAC was comparable to the CAA.

Aren’t they still pretty on par? The MAC might actually be slightly better.