Coaching Carousel 2023

[GMUgemini]

https://planning.gmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Mason-Master-Plan-Phase-2-Report.pdf

The Master Plan for those who haven't seen it. This proposes some sort of addition to the RAC, and a new student recreation building almost directly across from it. My view is at that point just give the RAC to the bball programs full send. There's no need for two gyms that close, and the RAC would pretty much instantly be a top 3 practice facility in the A10.

The RAC is where wrestling and volleyball have their matches too though isn’t it?

 

[Earl the Squirrel]

I think there is a real possibility this could happen, which is why he maybe saw this as his window to jump at the first opportunity that presented itself. We made some positive strides this season, but I think everybody agrees the 20 wins and 5th place finish were also a mirage in a very down, one-bid A10.

If Josh decided not to return to Mason next year and Kim returned, there was a very good likelihood we were going to take a step back in what I assume will be a much more competitive league. And if that did happen, it would have delayed his ascension even longer. He was smart to strike when the opportunity presented itself.

I share this view. From English's vantage point there were a lot of unknowns going into next season. I think he was committed and was working extremely hard on the recruiting front, but was well aware that if he wiffed again in the portal next season was likely a step back, and for a guy like English, that's very damaging to his narrative (and ambition).

So, yeah...he was likely miffed at not being extended (with more money for his assistants) and concerned enough about next season that when Providence's AD called and offered him a lifeline he was reliveved and jumped. My knee-jerk reaction was to blame the administration and Dr. Washington, and I still feel some of that is warranted, but if I'm more clear-eyed in my assessment, Kim was looking to bolt anyway, and even if Washington made all the right moves, he was as good as gone.

The lesson in all this for me is simple: With the English hire we flew too close to the sun and got burned. I'm never going to look at another young, nationally-hyped, coach the same way again. I'm forever jaded.

In fact, I may never be able to trust anyone in their 30s ever again. That includes home contractors, mechanics, loan officers, salesmen of all stripes, wait staff, health care professionals, my own nieces and nephews, etc.

I want no part of 'em!



* Tony Skinn being an exception

 

[MasonSAE4]

The RAC is where wrestling and volleyball have their matches too though isn’t it?

Volleyball yes. Unsure on wrestling. I know a Field House upgrade is on the horizon.

 

[GMU79]

I share this view. From English's vantage point there were a lot of unknowns going into next season. I think he was committed and was working extremely hard on the recruiting front, but was well aware that if he wiffed again in the portal next season was likely a step back, and for a guy like English, that's very damaging to his narrative (and ambition).

So, yeah...he was likely miffed at not being extended (with more money for his assistants) and concerned enough about next season that when Providence's AD called and offered him a lifeline he was reliveved and jumped. My knee-jerk reaction was to blame the administration and Dr. Washington, and I still feel some of that is warranted, but if I'm more clear-eyed in my assessment, Kim was looking to bolt anyway, and even if Washington made all the right moves, he was as good as gone.

The lesson in all this for me is simple: With the English hire we flew too close to the sun and got burned. I'm never going to look at another young, nationally-hyped, coach the same way again. I'm forever jaded.

In fact, I may never be able to trust anyone in their 30s ever again. That includes home contractors, mechanics, loan officers, salesmen of all stripes, wait staff, health care professionals, my own nieces and nephews, etc.

I want no part of 'em!



* Tony Skinn being an exception

In the '60s the saying was "never trust anyone over 30." You still can't.

 

[GSII]

Also just wanted to note Kim clearly wasn’t recruiting like a guy who was looking to jump ship this offseason.

And maybe getting mid level recruits bothered him. Maybe not getting an extension before A10 tournament bothered him. Maybe not selling out EbA bothered him. Maybe no AD to bitch to bothered him. Boooo f**kn hoooo! Coaches at bigger programs have worse to deal with.

 

[GMU79]

And maybe getting mid level recruits bothered him. Maybe not getting an extension before A10 tournament bothered him. Maybe not selling out EbA bothered him. Maybe no AD to bitch to bothered him. Boooo f**kn hoodoo! Coaches at bigger programs have worse to deal with.

Aside from Fernandez, he certainly didn't bring in the studs he inferred he would.

 

[MasonSAE4]

And maybe getting mid level recruits bothered him. Maybe not getting an extension before A10 tournament bothered him. Maybe not selling out EbA bothered him. Maybe no AD to bitch to bothered him. Boooo f**kn hoodoo! Coaches at bigger programs have worse to deal with.

There are people more in the know than me, but I suspect he wasn't actively looking and then realized after we got boat-raced by SLU that next years team would be no better, and the year after that was dicey. He may have felt it was now or never and God smiled upon him when a recently spurned man in Providence happened to have an issue of Sports Illustrated and a crayon.

 

[GMU79]

There are people more in the know than me, but I suspect he wasn't actively looking and then realized after we got boat-raced by SLU that next years team would be no better, and the year after that was dicey. He may have felt it was now or never and God smiled upon him when a recently spurned man in Providence happened to have an issue of Sports Illustrated and a crayon.

Yeah, that Karma thing works both ways, Mr. Ouiji board.

 

[MasonSAE4]

Yeah, that Karma thing works both ways, Mr. Ouiji board.

eh?

 

[smccart5]

Aside from Fernandez, he certainly didn't bring in the studs he inferred he would.

He rode DPs guy(s) to a better paying job

 

[tblack33]

Hope there’s real change. The simplest stuff they can’t ever seem to fix. I also hope they are very patient because this is the worst situation the program has seen in 25 years. No matter who the coach is, this is a 3/4 years rebuild. I know you all think these high school recruits will honor their commitment but why? Even polite is bolting. He didn’t get recruited by English… I’m not sure there’s one single kid you can count on coming back or honoring their commitment.

I think a realistic goal for the next coach is 8-10 wins year 1. Year 2, 10-15. Year 3, 15-18 year. 4, 18-22. Year 5, post season play. I truly think any higher expectations than that are going to just be a major let down. There’s light at the end of the tunnel but it’s not going to be easy and it’s not going to be quick. There’s no magic coach walking through that door that makes mason a post season team in the next 3 years and as long as the school realizes that and it keeps trending up that’s how they they need to approach this.

Along the way they need to realize and set realistic goals for the coach and school. Growing the fan base, fixing facilities. Showing the staff and program support. Having actual administrative staff in place to handle things. Game day Experience, community outreach, program growth. None of that should be on the coach. The school needs to handle that because at the end of the day coaches come and go.

If they were truly blindsided then they also need to hire someone who knows what the hell is going on in college hoops. There’s no way this was a complete shock to everyone out there. Someone knew something….

I'll ask you again -- why? Kim English faced the absolute same situation coming in with only one returning starter and got to .500 in year one. The landscape of college basketball is different, why is the expectation for the next coach to not put together a competitive team in year 1? I'm not saying we should win the league, but there is no reason we should preemptively resign ourselves to the PIG.

For me personally -- anything short of what we got from Kim in year 1 will be disappointing.

 

[FlPatriot]

And maybe getting mid level recruits bothered him. Maybe not getting an extension before A10 tournament bothered him. Maybe not selling out EbA bothered him. Maybe no AD to bitch to bothered him. Boooo f**kn hoooo! Coaches at bigger programs have worse to deal with.

Do think there is some truth to this…but BE is not the SEC. He’s likely in for continued disappointment.

 

[Falco]

Will mason hire a coach or an AD first?

 

[He15man]

Will mason hire a coach or an AD first?

Coach

 

[phoenix-arizona]

I smell a poll topic.

 

[GMU79]

Will mason hire a coach or an AD first?

Coach

 

[psyclone]

I'll ask you again -- why? Kim English faced the absolute same situation coming in with only one returning starter and got to .500 in year one. The landscape of college basketball is different, why is the expectation for the next coach to not put together a competitive team in year 1? I'm not saying we should win the league, but there is no reason we should preemptively resign ourselves to the PIG.

For me personally -- anything short of what we got from Kim in year 1 will be disappointing.

We can always dream that we can replicate Jerome Tang/K-State's success. Comes in with only 2 leftovers from the previous regime, is picked to be last in the Big 12, and turns out to make an Elite 8 (or better!) run.

It certainly helped that one of those "leftovers" was Markquis Nowell who may have had the most spectacular game I've ever seen from a pg last night! WOW!

 

[MasonMojo]

We can always dream that we can replicate Jerome Tang/K-State's success. Comes in with only 2 leftovers from the previous regime, is picked to be last in the Big 12, and turns out to make an Elite 8 (or better!) run.

It certainly helped that one of those "leftovers" was Markquis Nowell who may have had the most spectacular game I've ever seen from a pg last night! WOW!

SLU fans would be quick to tell you their guy is better

 

[2011WinOverVillanova]

Phil Martelli. Martelli knows the Atlantic 10 and I don't think he wants being fired from Saint Joseph's to be his last chapter as a head coach.

Hiring an older coach worked for Iona/It is already working for Saint John's. It would be nice not being a WaWa convenience store stop on "the road to fortune and glory".

 

[masonhoops1984]

I do think Mason’s response to this is going to be different. Time will tell if they fix the things that actually matter. I sat on sharing my conversation with KE where he vented about the “status quo” of leadership until the PC announcement, but once it was official I thought it was important to start holding Wash and others accountable. Mason PR called me hoping I’d tone it down, which was interesting because all I did was quote KE. What was most telling to me is if you dive into who interacted with my tweet there are a few student athletes who commented, liked, or shared it. It just confirmed to me that I’m not just a sad little fan complaining. The response by the university does feel different.

I'll ask you again -- why? Kim English faced the absolute same situation coming in with only one returning starter and got to .500 in year one. The landscape of college basketball is different, why is the expectation for the next coach to not put together a competitive team in year 1? I'm not saying we should win the league, but there is no reason we should preemptively resign ourselves to the PIG.

For me personally -- anything short of what we got from Kim in year 1 will be disappointing.

Because I think English overachieved and people here are vastly discrediting what he actually accomplished. While i'm pissed he left and I think there are a lot of feelings going around and I think there's blame to go all the way around I do however think he did achieve some things.

I'll be honest, I don't think the Mason job is that desirable. I think coaches talk, I think kids see what's going around. I think recruiting to mason is going to be harder now. Every year that goes by just makes it that much worse. Knowing what English just did, the next coach may be just as likely to jump as well. It is going to be really hard to recruit anyone. I think with the exception of Tony Skinn who actually cares about Mason it's going to be hard to convince a kid that the next coach is all in!

I think the admin has a lot of issues preventing any coach from achieving real success in the A10. I think this is a much much bigger project than anyone wants to admit. If it's going to be built the right way and have long term success than it can't just be another flash in the pan who gets 20 wins and bounces.