2021 Recruiting

[mkaufman1]

In the grand scheme of things you are correct stars don’t matter. Winning kids consistently to mt st Mary’s and Towson while losing kids to Rhode Island , st joes and umass is the issue. Stars or not.

Yep and thats the gripe going on. Its nice to get some kids under the radar who might have been overlooked. But no reason to also not get some guys who have been recruited by our peers as well. I know Otis Frazier was recruited by Umass and Kolek was recruited by Bonaventure and Richmond I believe, so more of that stuff.

IF nothing more it would help our psyche as fans haha.

 

[FreeGunston12]

Yep and thats the gripe going on. Its nice to get some kids under the radar who might have been overlooked. But no reason to also not get some guys who have been recruited by our peers as well. I know Otis Frazier was recruited by Umass and Kolek was recruited by Bonaventure and Richmond I believe, so more of that stuff.

IF nothing more it would help our psyche as fans haha.

I think one of the main reasons the fan base is so anxious about this class is that it looked like we took a step forward with the 2020 class. We'd all love for that to turn into a trend.

 

[gmujim92]

In the grand scheme of things you are correct stars don’t matter. Winning kids consistently to mt st Mary’s and Towson while losing kids to Rhode Island , st joes and umass is the issue. Stars or not.

Of course it’s sometimes not immediately obvious whether you “win” or “lose” with a specific recruit.

We “lost” Tre Wood to UMass and he’s not even in the league anymore. No loss whatsoever.

By contrast we “won” when Tyler Kolek picked Mason instead of Richmond or Bona. But if he doesn’t become at least a solid rotation player we didn’t really win anything.

Also as I’ve noted 1,000 times, we have no idea how seriously our staff or anyone else’s is pursuing many recruits, so we don’t really know whether you lost a recruit or were ever really that interested. Many kids at our level receive “offers” that are contingent upon what 8 other guys decide. Honestly those really aren’t offers at all...

 

[tblack33]

Of course it’s sometimes not immediately obvious whether you “win” or “lose” with a specific recruit.

We “lost” Tre Wood to UMass and he’s not even in the league anymore. No loss whatsoever.

By contrast we “won” when Tyler Kolek picked Mason instead of Richmond or Bona. But if he doesn’t become at least a solid rotation player we didn’t really win anything.

Also as I’ve noted 1,000 times, we have no idea how seriously our staff or anyone else’s is pursuing many recruits, so we don’t really know whether you lost a recruit or were ever really that interested. Many kids at our level receive “offers” that are contingent upon what 8 other guys decide. Honestly those really aren’t offers at all...

So I've always been confused about this idea of contingent scholarship offers. Does coach tell a kid hey we're offering you, but only if this guy doesn't commit? That doesn't sound right to me. I'd think that if we actually offer a kid its regardless of any of our other offers, and the offer is good until we run out of scholarships or revoke it (i.e. need to accept by X date). Does anyone have any actual insight into this because this isn't the first time I've heard it?

 

[gmujim92]

So I've always been confused about this idea of contingent scholarship offers. Does coach tell a kid hey we're offering you, but only if this guy doesn't commit? That doesn't sound right to me. I'd think that if we actually offer a kid its regardless of any of our other offers, and the offer is good until we run out of scholarships or revoke it (i.e. need to accept by X date). Does anyone have any actual insight into this because this isn't the first time I've heard it?

Coaches handle offers differently — I’ve known of a few who wouldn’t offer unless they were willing to take a commitment on the spot, but the vast majority throw out contingent offers to get on a kid’s radar and have him in their back pocket as a Plan B, C, D and so on.

That’s one reason why it takes some recruits so long to commit. Take a kid like Castro who has offers from a bunch of P5 schools — he could be Miami’s Plan B at the PF spot in the 21 class, so if he wants to go there he has to wait and hope the guy ahead of him in the pecking order goes somewhere else.

As another example, Mason just offered the Vinson kid from Kentucky but I’m 99.9% sure they wouldn’t take a commitment from him until they know for sure what DJ and Reynolds are doing.

Schools risk losing kids they like by waiting for someone else, while kids risk losing offers by keeping schools on hold and waiting to commit. There are a gazillion moving pieces to the process behind the scenes and fans are privy to almost none of it.

 

[Falco]

Recruiting is extremely complexed, offer sheets and stars are just a piece of the puzzle.

It would be nice to steal a recruit from a P5 program. But, its impossible to know how the P5 school intends to use a recruit. Was the recruit intended to be a day-1 starter or a long-term project?

Similar principle applies to beating out A10 schools for recruits.

 

[GSII]

Mid Major Lives Matter. Blue Chip players must commit or statues are coming down and the event staff of power 5 programs will be defunded until recruiting is fair...lol

 

[sleeperpick]

Of course it’s sometimes not immediately obvious whether you “win” or “lose” with a specific recruit.

We “lost” Tre Wood to UMass and he’s not even in the league anymore. No loss whatsoever.

By contrast we “won” when Tyler Kolek picked Mason instead of Richmond or Bona. But if he doesn’t become at least a solid rotation player we didn’t really win anything.

Also as I’ve noted 1,000 times, we have no idea how seriously our staff or anyone else’s is pursuing many recruits, so we don’t really know whether you lost a recruit or were ever really that interested. Many kids at our level receive “offers” that are contingent upon what 8 other guys decide. Honestly those really aren’t offers at all...

I mean Tre Wood scored 13 and 8 vs us and then transferred to the school the coach he originally wanted to play for went to... would say that is a bit different. I would take Tre on our team today.... Was more talking about losing kids to Elon and Charlotte... where those guys would compete to be starters over here... Jahmir Young would be a starter... and Hunter Woods would probably be 6th man on next years team....

Who knows maybe Kolek's offers to schools equal to us were "contingent" as you say.

 

[gmujim92]

I mean Tre Wood scored 13 and 8 vs us and then transferred to the school the coach he originally wanted to play for went to... would say that is a bit different. I would take Tre on our team today.... Was more talking about losing kids to Elon and Charlotte... where those guys would compete to be starters over here... Jahmir Young would be a starter... and Hunter Woods would probably be 6th man on next years team....

Who knows maybe Kolek's offers to schools equal to us were "contingent" as you say.

I know you’re a Jahmir guy but can we at least agree to wait until they’ve finished college to decide whether we lost out by getting XJ instead? Those guys have a lot of ball left to play and a lot can change over the next 3 years.

Hunter Woods had a terrific freshman season but there’s no way he was beating out Miller at the 3 so he probably made the right decision by going to Elon. Instead of coming off the bench until his senior year, he’ll likely be a 1,000-point scorer and has a great shot at all-CAA.

 

[sleeperpick]

I know you’re a Jahmir guy but can we at least agree to wait until they’ve finished college to decide whether we lost out by getting XJ instead? Those guys have a lot of ball left to play and a lot can change over the next 3 years.

XJ is certainly not the couple on our team that Jahmir is head and shoulders better than which there are a few. Don’t see why we couldn’t get both. Paulsen loves signing 4 people at a time that all play the same position. Never can have too many good guards. XJ is a great player. Jahmir is just something special.
More pissed about Hunter Woods to be honest. So many holes down low

 

[gmujim92]

XJ is certainly not the couple on our team that Jahmir is head and shoulders better than which there are a few. Don’t see why we couldn’t get both. Paulsen loves signing 4 people at a time that all play the same position. Never can have too many good guards. XJ is a great player. Jahmir is just something special.
More pissed about Hunter Woods to be honest. So many holes down low

Woods is only 6-6, he wouldn’t be playing down low for us. He would have brought us one step closer to having an entire roster of 6-6/6-7 guys though.

 

[sleeperpick]

Woods is only 6-6, he wouldn’t be playing down low for us. He would have brought us one step closer to having an entire roster of 6-6/6-7 guys though.

Lol he would have signed before any of these kids and Paulsen trots out AJ at center for two years as a backup lol. Plus gmugemeni swears we can get away with a small center because Kendall pollard was

 

[GMUgemini]

Lol he would have signed before any of these kids and Paulsen trots out AJ at center for two years as a backup lol. Plus gmugemeni swears we can get away with a small center because Kendall pollard was

Short or small? An undersized center is fine if they've got the strength and bulk to push around people in the low block. AJ is not a center, despite the fact that he's as long as plenty of A-10 centers over the last three years...but do keep going on.

And I know this is our argument about Zaakir Williamson looking more like a 5 than a 4.

Also, just because Paulsen keeps putting people out of position, doesn't mean we should WANT him to do that, or that it's good for the players to play that way.

 

[mkaufman1]

Woods is only 6-6, he wouldn’t be playing down low for us. He would have brought us one step closer to having an entire roster of 6-6/6-7 guys though.

Did someone say 6'7?

 

[tblack33]

Coaches handle offers differently — I’ve known of a few who wouldn’t offer unless they were willing to take a commitment on the spot, but the vast majority throw out contingent offers to get on a kid’s radar and have him in their back pocket as a Plan B, C, D and so on.

That’s one reason why it takes some recruits so long to commit. Take a kid like Castro who has offers from a bunch of P5 schools — he could be Miami’s Plan B at the PF spot in the 21 class, so if he wants to go there he has to wait and hope the guy ahead of him in the pecking order goes somewhere else.

As another example, Mason just offered the Vinson kid from Kentucky but I’m 99.9% sure they wouldn’t take a commitment from him until they know for sure what DJ and Reynolds are doing.

Schools risk losing kids they like by waiting for someone else, while kids risk losing offers by keeping schools on hold and waiting to commit. There are a gazillion moving pieces to the process behind the scenes and fans are privy to almost none of it.

Gotcha, that's what I figured but it honestly just surprises me that is the way Paulsen does business based on what we know about him. I'd imagine that's a weird pill to swallow for some of these kids, getting contingent offers and knowing they aren't a coaches number one choice, when up to the point of an offer all they are hearing is how they are the coaches guy and they really want them at the program. Just all seems a bit awkward.

And then you've got guys like Dambrot who say F it and offer everyone non-contingent offers and end up over the limit and figure it out over the summer.

All super interesting, and doesn't seem to be in the players favor whatsoever. Go from being the star in your own little circle to being told yeah we really want you, and you'll get a full ride but only if X and Y guy both decide they don't want to play for me.

 

[mkaufman1]

Gotcha, that's what I figured but it honestly just surprises me that is the way Paulsen does business based on what we know about him. I'd imagine that's a weird pill to swallow for some of these kids, getting contingent offers and knowing they aren't a coaches number one choice, when up to the point of an offer all they are hearing is how they are the coaches guy and they really want them at the program. Just all seems a bit awkward.

And then you've got guys like Dambrot who say F it and offer everyone non-contingent offers and end up over the limit and figure it out over the summer.

All super interesting, and doesn't seem to be in the players favor whatsoever. Go from being the star in your own little circle to being told yeah we really want you, and you'll get a full ride but only if X and Y guy both decide they don't want to play for me.

There was actually a video that Darius retweeted about being on recruiting visits and its how a coach says "youre our number one" shows them the cool construction (That they'd never see) etc. I have to think thats probably a lot like recruiting. Its like going for jobs, to a degree. They'll be nice on the interview but then you never hear back.

Its definitely a complicated thing, thats why as much as we can get rightfully upset about "well this guys offers look crappy" we have no idea if theres been additional interest, or 1000 variables.

 

[sleeperpick]

There was actually a video that Darius retweeted about being on recruiting visits and its how a coach says "youre our number one" shows them the cool construction (That they'd never see) etc. I have to think thats probably a lot like recruiting. Its like going for jobs, to a degree. They'll be nice on the interview but then you never hear back.

Its definitely a complicated thing, thats why as much as we can get rightfully upset about "well this guys offers look crappy" we have no idea if theres been additional interest, or 1000 variables.

well from Jim's first point about contingent offers and Erik Reynolds.... those offers still show up on Verbal Commits. So no, I don't think us signing kids who have 2 offers on recruiting website are missing all of these contingent offers from good schools.

 

[gmujim92]

Gotcha, that's what I figured but it honestly just surprises me that is the way Paulsen does business based on what we know about him. I'd imagine that's a weird pill to swallow for some of these kids, getting contingent offers and knowing they aren't a coaches number one choice, when up to the point of an offer all they are hearing is how they are the coaches guy and they really want them at the program. Just all seems a bit awkward.

And then you've got guys like Dambrot who say F it and offer everyone non-contingent offers and end up over the limit and figure it out over the summer.

All super interesting, and doesn't seem to be in the players favor whatsoever. Go from being the star in your own little circle to being told yeah we really want you, and you'll get a full ride but only if X and Y guy both decide they don't want to play for me.

It’s definitely a dirty, dirty business. I could write a book just about some of the uglier stories I’ve been told over the years of kids’ and parents’ experiences with the world of Division I football and basketball recruiting.

Lots of coaches out there getting rich by screwing with predominantly Black kids who are trying to go to college, escape crushing poverty in many cases and make a better life for their family. I find people like Dambrot to be disgusting and can’t understand how he continues to get players.

Simpkins said a while back that DP won’t make an offer to a recruit unless he’s willing to accept a commitment at that time, but that could just be semantics.

Also kids have been known to lie and say they’ve been offered when they haven’t. It’s all really messy.

 

[gmujim92]

The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is the dishonesty. I’d rather deal with a coach who is up-front and tells me where I stand in the pecking order for offers at my position — at least then I can make an informed decision.

I can guarantee we’ve lost quality recruits who have been lied to by other coaches and wound up in bad situations that were not at all what was promised to them.

 

[mkaufman1]

well from Jim's first point about contingent offers and Erik Reynolds.... those offers still show up on Verbal Commits. So no, I don't think us signing kids who have 2 offers on recruiting website are missing all of these contingent offers from good schools.

I get that too, but do we know if the guys with two crap offers had other interest or other offers that VC and rivals just didn’t pick up? Does VC And rivals pick up every offer or interest? I don’t know.

It’s a lot of things. I usually just wait to evaluate a kid when I see them hit the floor. And sure I’ve been wrong when I’ve seen them. I mean I thought Relvao was going to have potential haha.