The Official Extend Dave Paulsen Thread

[gmujim92]

You mean 'stellar' right?

Yep, I deserved that.

 

[By George.]

Why are so many teams trying to play like Golden State then? Not being snarky, but the “big man down low” is being phased out of the pro game and it seems college basketball is following suit.

Math says it’s all about being able to spread the floor and make 3s at a high clip.

My biggest criticism of our program is we seemingly try to play that way but don’t shoot the 3 well enough to make it work.

I’m sorry Jim but what do you think we actually do well right now?

People talk about player development under Paulsen without mentioning regressions like Mar’s offensive inefficiencies and Otis and Boyd turning the ball over more than ever. How long are we going to talk about AJ (and everyone’s) rotations on D before it’s fixed or we stop trapping multiple spots on the floor? It’s such an easy out for Paulsen to blame slow second level rotations over and over without willingness to show adjustments in conference play.

What are your other criticisms?

I’d argue that we’re terrible after timeouts which leads to being ineffective in out of bounds plays, we don’t seem to make adjustments at halftime and aren’t really willing to.

Injuries suck, I constantly feel like I’m being trolled with all my favorite teams, but we weren’t playing good basketball with a healthy roster and some can make the argument that Greene/Miller are better than Grayer/Mar. Everyone blames Grayers defensive issues on not being able to move laterally or maybe it had something to do with being forced to guard out of position for 3 years.

 

[gmujim92]

I’m sorry Jim but what do you think we actually do well right now?

People talk about player development under Paulsen without mentioning regressions like Mar’s offensive inefficiencies and Otis and Boyd turning the ball over more than ever. How long are we going to talk about AJ (and everyone’s) rotations on D before it’s fixed or we stop trapping multiple spots on the floor? It’s such an easy out for Paulsen to blame slow second level rotations over and over without willingness to show adjustments in conference play.

What are your other criticisms?

I’d argue that we’re terrible after timeouts which leads to being ineffective in out of bounds plays, we don’t seem to make adjustments at halftime and aren’t really willing to.

Injuries suck, I constantly feel like I’m being trolled with all my favorite teams, but we weren’t playing good basketball with a healthy roster and some can make the argument that Greene/Miller are better than Grayer/Mar. Everyone blames Grayers defensive issues on not being able to move laterally or maybe it had something to do with being forced to guard out of position for 3 years.

What are we doing well right now? Not much ... we’ve lost 4 of the last 6 and needed a home whistle to beat UMass.

But I think you and others like to cherry-pick certain things and draw sweeping conclusions from them to criticize Paulsen.

I’ve never claimed he’s infallible, but our teams generally get better as the season goes along, then run out of gas at the end. That’s a sign of both good coaching and not enough bodies.

If we can ever have a season with a mostly complete, healthy team, I think we’ll be able to judge him more fairly.

 

[mason89]

A few of the things we are doing well right now:

-- Steals without fouling
-- Passes out of the post as opposed to the post being a black hole
-- Free throw shooting...with a few exceptions
-- Getting good play from our freshmen...a positive result of having all of these injuries
-- Taking charges

If we would avoid our mental lapses, we would be a much better team. That's the maturity factor. The talent and chemistry are there.

 

[By George.]

But I think you and others like to cherry-pick certain things and draw sweeping conclusions from them to criticize Paulsen.

Like what, what sweeping conclusions?

When do concerns become reality? When are things we’ve been saying for years finally justified? I get disagreeing with me but I’d argue that no one is more involved with the program as an outsider. Reminder: I’ve been plenty positive of DP for many things just think it’s important to be critical of the man in charge especially when expectations are set by him.

I’d still like to know your other criticisms of this team, it’s refreshing.

 

[sleeperpick]

Like what, what sweeping conclusions?

When do concerns become reality? When are things we’ve been saying for years finally justified? I get disagreeing with me but I’d argue that no one is more involved with the program as an outsider. Reminder: I’ve been plenty positive of DP for many things just think it’s important to be critical of the man in charge especially when expectations are set by him.

I’d still like to know your other criticisms of this team, it’s refreshing.

save your behind the scenes, on press row knowledge of the program. GMUJim watches every 4th game from his couch in Richmond and knows what good basketball looks like even if his and Paulsen's strategies are 20 years out of date...

 

[By George.]

save your behind the scenes, on press row knowledge of the program. GMUJim watches every 4th game from his couch in Richmond and knows what good basketball looks like even if his and Paulsen's strategies are 20 years out of date...

I’m not here to bash GMU Jim, I appreciate the back and forth, it’s important dialogue to have. He’s been supper supportive of our project even if he doesn’t always agree.

Pointing out how plugged in I am isn't a shot at anyone just a defensive statement to imply maybe, just maybe, we know something.

 

[mkaufman1]

Enjoying the discussion- I don’t have much to add on the game to game stuff.

The biggest judgements I have are more on the overall body of work where I’ve seen continuous improvement over the course of the season, and that the talent of the youngest class each year seems to be on an upward tick. Mason is now respectable in league which is a nice thing, but it’s time to take the next step forward.

One criticism I have is the fact the team started so sloppy and slow after having Spain and extra practices. That to me was not a good look and a major disappointment/red flag.

This year was supposed to be the year, but once again Paulsen doesn’t have a full deck of cards. Mar, as much as he regressed offensively this year, still was an important part of the defensive scheme. The guy got out on shooters. Boyd being hurt and Calixte really hurt because those are two key defenders in the paint and on the boards. I can’t be as critical when you are missing key pieces and go back to playing freshmen (even though they look awesome).

For this team to have any chance, they have to have Boyd and Calixte contributing on the defensive side of the ball. Unfortunately this team is handicapped without some main pieces and back to almost square 1.

 

[gmujim92]

Like what, what sweeping conclusions?

When do concerns become reality? When are things we’ve been saying for years finally justified? I get disagreeing with me but I’d argue that no one is more involved with the program as an outsider. Reminder: I’ve been plenty positive of DP for many things just think it’s important to be critical of the man in charge especially when expectations are set by him.

I’d still like to know your other criticisms of this team, it’s refreshing.

* Going back to your original post, I think it’s a sweeping conclusion to question the staff on player development because Mar had a sophomore slump (he’s not the first), Otis turns the ball over trying to do too much and Boyd turned the ball over because his wrist is messed up and he was either reluctant or unable to shoot. While there are always outliers, we’ve seen enough players improve over their time with this staff to know they’re good at developing talent.

* AJ is a conundrum unto himself because he’s so gifted athletically but doesn’t appear to grasp any of our defensive principles and he’s nearing the end of his third year in the program. There’s a limit to what the staff can do — at some point it’s up to the player.

* Another sweeping conclusion is Dave doesn’t make adjustments coming out of halftime. This is one of the more absurd suggestions I’ve heard, given that we’ve generally been a much better second-half team and that’s indicative of a staff that can recognize what the opponent is doing and adjust to it.

I think maybe the disconnect is some fans think of halftime adjustments as obvious strategic changes like going from man to zone or pressing full court. The coaches I’ve dealt with would say their adjustments are more subtle tweaks and generally focused on better executing the game plan than throwing it out and doing something different.

* We’ve been over the out of bounds plays so I won’t retread that ground. Suffice to say Dave’s either not a wizard with the whiteboard or our guys don’t do a great job of executing the play — perhaps a bit of both.

My main criticisms of DP are that his offense doesn’t employ enough off-ball screens to free up shooters and relies too much on straight-line drives off the high ball screen — and that even when we do generate open shots, we don’t have enough guys capable of consistently knocking them down.

I think his defensive system is sound when he has guys experienced enough to understand the rotations, but there’s certainly an argument to be made that we should simplify things for the young guys by playing the post straight up. We’re leaving too many shooters wide open because guys keep missing reads.

If I err on defending DP too ardently, I guess it’s because I support what he’s trying to do from a big-picture perspective. He has overhauled a broken program culture, brought us to respectability in our league and recruited good kids who are a credit to the university. But none of that really matters if he doesn’t eventually win — at some point we have to stop rebuilding and take that next step.

I hope it happens because firing him and starting all over again should be the last thing any of us want.

 

[Washingtonian]

* Another sweeping conclusion is Dave doesn’t make adjustments coming out of halftime. This is one of the more absurd suggestions I’ve heard, given that we’ve generally been a much better second-half team and that’s indicative of a staff that can recognize what the opponent is doing and adjust to it.

I think maybe the disconnect is some fans think of halftime adjustments as obvious strategic changes like going from man to zone or pressing full court. The coaches I’ve dealt with would say their adjustments are more subtle tweaks and generally focused on better executing the game plan than throwing it out and doing something different.

The Kansas State game showed DP will make adjustments at the half. I don't think their own fans saw a potential upset coming.

 

[Copes4Three]

DP is too focused on playing favorites instead of concentrating on winning

 

[By George.]

* Going back to your original post, I think it’s a sweeping conclusion to question the staff on player development because Mar had a sophomore slump (he’s not the first), Otis turns the ball over trying to do too much and Boyd turned the ball over because his wrist is messed up and he was either reluctant or unable to shoot. While there are always outliers, we’ve seen enough players improve over their time with this staff to know they’re good at developing talent.

* AJ is a conundrum unto himself because he’s so gifted athletically but doesn’t appear to grasp any of our defensive principles and he’s nearing the end of his third year in the program. There’s a limit to what the staff can do — at some point it’s up to the player.

* Another sweeping conclusion is Dave doesn’t make adjustments coming out of halftime. This is one of the more absurd suggestions I’ve heard, given that we’ve generally been a much better second-half team and that’s indicative of a staff that can recognize what the opponent is doing and adjust to it.

I think it’s easy to call people out for suggestions or concerns they have using their examples if you don’t give evidence to support your counter. For example, what players have they truly developed? (I know there’s some just looking for your answers) Disregarding examples of failures because it happens everywhere but then rewarding player progress to coaches for guys like Otis seems hypocrital to me. Knowing Otis and his family, he was going to work his a** off to get better no matter the coach he played for. Yes, we gave him the chance and I’m thankful DP and company found him. We actually love Simpkins and the assistant coaches who are often on the road recruiting but the jury is still out on this staff being some group that can always settle for less talented/recognizable players because of their developmental skills. This being said, I applaud them for snagging diamonds in the rough, but is this enough to build a winning program around?

Also, what examples of adjustments have you seen that aren’t as basic as the ones some of us have suggested? Sports are sometimes basic, especially basketball and sometimes it just comes down to hitting shots or not. Often when we’ve been a second half team it’s because shots started to fall or we buckled down on our own defensive assignments etc (DP has specifically confirmed this) not necessarily because of any adjustment we made. This is fine, plenty of coaches stay the course. It’s not like they go into halftime and watch film and are able to dissect everything so sometimes adjustments are really simple. I don’t think questioning DPs adjustments/lack-there-of is absurd at all. For example, and many have already pointed this out, going full court D to start this year was an adjustment to the way he’s coached at Mason, it failed and now we’re stuck in a base. If we can’t question his defensive strategy during his tenure at Mason and his ability to rotate defenses that he’s already shown here then why even be a fan?

Understanding that we’re just a bunch of fans talking who are not getting paid, I don’t think anything is really too absurd to discuss as we battle to finish around 500 in a year that was self touted as the second half of a 2 year season. Injuries are definitely a reason, but there’s more to it. Expectations were fostered by fans but initiated by our coach. Without his expectations, I’d assume this season would go exactly as it’s going. #finishtop4please

 

[gmujim92]

I think it’s easy to call people out for suggestions or concerns they have using their examples if you don’t give evidence to support your counter. For example, what players have they truly developed? (I know there’s some just looking for your answers) Disregarding examples of failures because it happens everywhere but then rewarding player progress to coaches for guys like Otis seems hypocrital to me. Knowing Otis and his family, he was going to work his a** off to get better no matter the coach he played for. Yes, we gave him the chance and I’m thankful DP and company found him. We actually love Simpkins and the assistant coaches who are often on the road recruiting but the jury is still out on this staff being some group that can always settle for less talented/recognizable players because of their developmental skills. This being said, I applaud them for snagging diamonds in the rough, but is this enough to build a winning program around?

Also, what examples of adjustments have you seen that aren’t as basic as the ones some of us have suggested? Sports are sometimes basic, especially basketball and sometimes it just comes down to hitting shots or not. Often when we’ve been a second half team it’s because shots started to fall or we buckled down on our own defensive assignments etc (DP has specifically confirmed this) not necessarily because of any adjustment we made. This is fine, plenty of coaches stay the course. It’s not like they go into halftime and watch film and are able to dissect everything so sometimes adjustments are really simple. I don’t think questioning DPs adjustments/lack-there-of is absurd at all. For example, and many have already pointed this out, going full court D to start this year was an adjustment to the way he’s coached at Mason, it failed and now we’re stuck in a base. If we can’t question his defensive strategy during his tenure at Mason and his ability to rotate defenses that he’s already shown here then why even be a fan?

Understanding that we’re just a bunch of fans talking who are not getting paid, I don’t think anything is really too absurd to discuss as we battle to finish around 500 in a year that was self touted as the second half of a 2 year season. Injuries are definitely a reason, but there’s more to it. Expectations were fostered by fans but initiated by our coach. Without his expectations, I’d assume this season would go exactly as it’s going. #finishtop4please

I’m certainly not opposed to expectations — I just think we need to remember the context in which expectations are set. Dave made the “two-year season” comment before Grayer hurt his foot; at that point he assumed we’d have the following roster in 2018-19:

Sr: Otis, Grayer
Jr: Kier, Boyd, Reuter
So: Mar, Greene, Calixte, Wilson
Fr: Hartwell, JDS, Miller

If we actually had this team and were 15-12 overall, I’d consider it a glaring underachievement. But 6 of those 12 guys have missed multiple games due to injury. I think that calls for re-adjusting expectations. Others may disagree.

Also, I’d say Kier is Exhibit A for our staff’s ability to develop players. There were some who questioned if he was even an A-10 caliber recruit.

Boyd is also a much better shooter (when healthy) than he was when he got to Mason. Javon is blossoming into maybe our best two-way player. And Calixte has improved 1,000% in less than two seasons.

As I said, I think the staff is doing a good job overall. Not nearly perfect, and there’s always room to get better, but the program is moving methodically in the right direction even if this season isn’t what any of us hoped it would be.

 

[gmujim92]

Actually, Marquise was Exhibit A for our staff’s talent development. They helped turn that kid into a monster.

 

[GMUgemini]

I think it’s easy to call people out for suggestions or concerns they have using their examples if you don’t give evidence to support your counter. For example, what players have they truly developed? (I know there’s some just looking for your answers) Disregarding examples of failures because it happens everywhere but then rewarding player progress to coaches for guys like Otis seems hypocrital to me. Knowing Otis and his family, he was going to work his a** off to get better no matter the coach he played for. Yes, we gave him the chance and I’m thankful DP and company found him. We actually love Simpkins and the assistant coaches who are often on the road recruiting but the jury is still out on this staff being some group that can always settle for less talented/recognizable players because of their developmental skills. This being said, I applaud them for snagging diamonds in the rough, but is this enough to build a winning program around?

Also, what examples of adjustments have you seen that aren’t as basic as the ones some of us have suggested? Sports are sometimes basic, especially basketball and sometimes it just comes down to hitting shots or not. Often when we’ve been a second half team it’s because shots started to fall or we buckled down on our own defensive assignments etc (DP has specifically confirmed this) not necessarily because of any adjustment we made. This is fine, plenty of coaches stay the course. It’s not like they go into halftime and watch film and are able to dissect everything so sometimes adjustments are really simple. I don’t think questioning DPs adjustments/lack-there-of is absurd at all. For example, and many have already pointed this out, going full court D to start this year was an adjustment to the way he’s coached at Mason, it failed and now we’re stuck in a base. If we can’t question his defensive strategy during his tenure at Mason and his ability to rotate defenses that he’s already shown here then why even be a fan?

Understanding that we’re just a bunch of fans talking who are not getting paid, I don’t think anything is really too absurd to discuss as we battle to finish around 500 in a year that was self touted as the second half of a 2 year season. Injuries are definitely a reason, but there’s more to it. Expectations were fostered by fans but initiated by our coach. Without his expectations, I’d assume this season would go exactly as it’s going. #finishtop4please

The adjustment he made against Duquesne was to switch up where the double was coming from when the ball got into the post. Duquesne had to make much tougher cross court passes to get the ball out of the post to the open man and made it easier for our players to close out. That led to the huge first half lead and a lot of turnovers for Duquesne.

But their players settled in and stopped turning the ball over and started hitting shots off screens to end the half.

Then we extended our defense to prevent the open 3s and Duquesne hit something like 10/11 on the inside while going 1-7 from 3.

Then we switched back and Duquesne hit a bunch of 3s again.

And let’s be honest, those 3s cake from two players, Dunn-Martin and Hughes. Only one other player hit a 3 point shot. So we are talking about a lot of blown assignments for Miller and Otis.

So those were the adjustments made last game. The problem is, we aren’t good enough to be able to shut down both the paint and the 3-point line at the same time.

Duquesne also out-muscled is on the offensive glass (oddly enough we did the same on the other end), so that turns out to largely be a wash.

The big difference is they hit 15/17 from the free throw line and we hit 7/13. The fact that Otis took 0, Kier took 2 and Reuter took 2 FTs all game against a physical and handsy team means we weren’t being aggressive enough.

 

[GMUgemini]

Actually, Marquise was Exhibit A for our staff’s talent development. They helped turn that kid into a monster.

Marquise, Thompson, Jenkins, Greene, and Kier for me so far.

 

[G M U]

To use the logic from yesterday:
"This year’s Bucknell team is the first primarily comprised of Davis’ recruits. Paulsen, Fischer and Kelly recruited the core of the team that won the last 3 Patriot League regular-season titles."

Wouldn't Moore, Thompson, Jenkins be Hewitt success stories? Also, Shevon I guess improved his senior year but he was pretty good his junior year.

 

[gmujim92]

To use the logic from yesterday:
"This year’s Bucknell team is the first primarily comprised of Davis’ recruits. Paulsen, Fischer and Kelly recruited the core of the team that won the last 3 Patriot League regular-season titles."

Wouldn't Moore, Thompson, Jenkins be Hewitt success stories? Also, Shevon I guess improved his senior year but he was pretty good his junior year.

Sure, those are all Hewitt recruits. But a stretch to call them “Hewitt success stories” considering how little success we had with Hewitt as coach.

 

[Jack Strop]

Sure, those are all Hewitt recruits. But a stretch to call them “Hewitt success stories” considering how little success we had with Hewitt as coach.

As I recall, Moore and Jenkins didn't play all too well under PH. Thompson was Hewitt's parting gift to Mason, sort of like Evans was from Westhead (although their stories end in sharp contrast for those two players). And, please don't say that I'm comparing Evans a d Thompson as players, 'cuz there is no comparison of worth.

 

[GMUgemini]

As I recall, Moore and Jenkins didn't play all too well under PH. Thompson was Hewitt's parting gift to Mason, sort of like Evans was from Westhead (although their stories end in sharp contrast for those two players). And, please don't say that I'm comparing Evans a d Thompson as players, 'cuz there is no comparison of worth.

Uh are you forgetting their senior years when we won 20 games? Moore’s double double machine. His triple double? Those games were that year. Jenkins was a beast for us.

Junior to senior stats:

Jenkins 2015-2016: 7.1 pts, 5.5 rebounds, .6 assists (21.4 mpg)
2016-2016: 12.0 pts, 6.1 rebounds, 1.9 assists (27.7 mpg)

Moore 2015-2016: 11.4 pts, 6.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists (32.5 mpg)
2016-2017: 16.9 pts, 10.9 rebounds, 3.5 assists (34.9 mpg)

Most crucially, Moore went from shooting 6% from 3 to shooting 30% from 3.