OT: Proposed One-time Transfer Exemption

[GMU79]

Leave it to the admins to bring this topic back on topic.

As for your question, nope. I think one or two of the guys would have been gone before the season started, OR one of the P5 schools we took to school those illustrious two weekends would have improved themselves so the matchups would have been different. It's all really hard to say.

PS thanks GMU79 for your concern over the comment you took directed maliciously toward me, but I've been on these boards for over 25 years, in all it's versions, so nothing personal was taken, as it never is, nor should be, when people are using anonymous names to converse.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[Pablo]

One of the benefits of the D-I's mandatory redshirt rule for transfers was that it facilitated graduation (i.e., 5 years of school for 4 years of eligibility). This rule change likely will not have an immediate, significant adverse impact on graduation rates because those who played in the 2020-21 season are entitled to a 5th year of eligibility (although they are not guaranteed a scholarship for the 5th year of eligibility).

But, how will this rule change impact graduation rates after the 2024-25 season?

 

[GMUgemini]

Probably ... none of our core guys had really done anything of note prior to 2006 to warrant being poached

You never know. But Lamar Butler shot 43% from 3 his junior season and averaged 15.7 ppg. You don't think a P5 isn't trying to poach him?

Tony Skinn and Jai Lewis also had impressive numbers as juniors, but I'm guessing they're a little undersized? Still, even undersized bigs are always a hot commodity in college (hell, Jai Lewis shot almost 60% from the floor his sophomore season, and averaged 7.2 rebounds a game -- he might have been gone after his sophomore year).

 

[HoopsAdmin]

You never know. But Lamar Butler shot 43% from 3 his junior season and averaged 15.7 ppg. You don't think a P5 isn't trying to poach him?

Tony Skinn and Jai Lewis also had impressive numbers as juniors, but I'm guessing they're a little undersized? Still, even undersized bigs are always a hot commodity in college (hell, Jai Lewis shot almost 60% from the floor his sophomore season, and averaged 7.2 rebounds a game -- he might have been gone after his sophomore year).

And it's not one-sided of course - any of them could've put their names in the transfer portal and been gone for 2005-2006.

 

[gmujim92]

You never know. But Lamar Butler shot 43% from 3 his junior season and averaged 15.7 ppg. You don't think a P5 isn't trying to poach him?

Tony Skinn and Jai Lewis also had impressive numbers as juniors, but I'm guessing they're a little undersized? Still, even undersized bigs are always a hot commodity in college (hell, Jai Lewis shot almost 60% from the floor his sophomore season, and averaged 7.2 rebounds a game -- he might have been gone after his sophomore year).

I guess you’re right, just thinking they hadn’t really done much as a team prior to the 05-06 season, but as we’ve seen this off-season that isn’t stopping P6s from grabbing players off teams that were meh or worse

 

[GMUgemini]

One of the benefits of the D-I's mandatory redshirt rule for transfers was that it facilitated graduation (i.e., 5 years of school for 4 years of eligibility). This rule change likely will not have an immediate, significant adverse impact on graduation rates because those who played in the 2020-21 season are entitled to a 5th year of eligibility (although they are not guaranteed a scholarship for the 5th year of eligibility).

But, how will this rule change impact graduation rates after the 2024-25 season?

This will depend on where you transfer. Someone going from one state university to another state university within the same system (i.e. GMU to JMU or ODU) probably won't have issues with transfer credits, but going from public to private (i.e. Kolek going from GMU to Marquette), or from one state to another (i.e. AJ going from GMU to South Carolina) might have to retake some classes.

I'm guessing they'll be taking a lot of summer classes and not going home if they're going to graduate in 4 years after a transfer.

 

[gmubrian]

...I've been on these boards for over 25 years, in all it's versions, so nothing personal was taken, as it never is, nor should be, when people are using anonymous names to converse.

What about those of us poor, stupid bastards that used our real names and/or can easily be back tracked to our real names?

 

[gmutom]

What about those of us poor, stupid bastards that used our real names and/or can easily be back tracked to our real names?

Yeah, Doug, what about those dumb people?

 

[gmubrian]

I think one thing hasn't been highlighted enough, though it was touched on briefly, is the effect the scholarship limit will have on this. Yes, the P5's are going to steal the A10 stars after a year or more of experience. Since you are limited to 13 scholarships total, you have to forgo something to get that star. What is it that you give up, a possible star freshman. So those star freshmen will start out in lower places than they would have normally. Some P5 coaches have already said they aren't taking freshman anymore when they can get a known quantity from another school.

So, I think the overall impact will be that incoming freshman will (on average) start at a lower level school. The lower tier schools will get the benefit of having better freshman for a year or two before they move to a higher school. The higher level schools will get more well known quantities for fewer years but will forgo some star freshman. So, the lower level schools will become the minor leagues for the higher level schools.

 

[Masonfan3]

I guess you’re right, just thinking they hadn’t really done much as a team prior to the 05-06 season, but as we’ve seen this off-season that isn’t stopping P6s from grabbing players off teams that were meh or worse

Speaking of 05-06, no doubt in my mind that a lot of P6 schools would have been all over Folarin and Will after the Final 4 run.

 

[jessej]

I think one thing hasn't been highlighted enough, though it was touched on briefly, is the effect the scholarship limit will have on this. Yes, the P5's are going to steal the A10 stars after a year or more of experience. Since you are limited to 13 scholarships total, you have to forgo something to get that star. What is it that you give up, a possible star freshman. So those star freshmen will start out in lower places than they would have normally. Some P5 coaches have already said they aren't taking freshman anymore when they can get a known quantity from another school.

So, I think the overall impact will be that incoming freshman will (on average) start at a lower level school. The lower tier schools will get the benefit of having better freshman for a year or two before they move to a higher school. The higher level schools will get more well known quantities for fewer years but will forgo some star freshman. So, the lower level schools will become the minor leagues for the higher level schools.

This is the economically proven model in MLB - High revenue teams poaching stars from small revenue markets

 

[Old Man]

Yeah, Doug, what about those dumb people?

Who's this 'Doug' fellow?

 

[GMUgemini]

This is the economically proven model in MLB - High revenue teams poaching stars from small revenue markets

Yes, but there are contracts and boundaries around when a team can poach or when a player can leave or renegotiate a contract (and teams can dump players who are underperforming -- trading them, sending them down to the minors, etc.).

The way the NCAA is structured it's basically a free for all, and unless the NCAA cracks down on back-channel conversations with players (or really players' families, HS coaches, AAU coaches) before they enter the portal, it's going to get nasty.

 

[Pablo]

DI Council adopts new transfer legislation

All Division I student-athletes will have a one-time opportunity to transfer and compete immediately beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, if legislation adopted

www.ncaa.org

"Members also adopted deadlines for student-athletes to provide written notification of transfer if they want to compete immediately. The deadlines will be May 1 for fall and winter sport student-athletes and July 1 for spring sport student-athletes, but the Council also granted a blanket waiver for this year only that sets the date for all student-athletes as July 1. Members noted the May 1 deadline was just a month away, and the waiver would provide students additional time they might need to decide.

The dates were selected based on a desire to balance providing flexibility for student-athletes to make informed transfer decisions with protecting the interests of students who don’t transfer but will be impacted by those who do.

Some exceptions to the deadlines would apply in cases of a head coaching change or canceled athletics scholarship before July 1.

Transferring college athletes also must meet progress-toward-degree requirements and be otherwise academically eligible to compete immediately after transfer, and both the head coach at the new school and the student-athlete must certify that no tampering took place. Schools cannot object to schools to which a student-athlete wants to transfer. The waiver process will continue to be available for students who do not meet the criteria of the one-time transfer exception or who wish to transfer more than once."



"

 

[GSII]

How does NIL play into this or separately? If a player makes money off it, does the school have rights to claim since said player used schools sport, facilities, name, etc while creating value to theirs? And what if player wants to transfer? Can school sue for damages since said player added value to not only their brand but the schools?

 

[Five Two]

How does NIL play into this or separately? If a player makes money off it, does the school have rights to claim since said player used schools sport, facilities, name, etc while creating value to theirs? And what if player wants to transfer? Can school sue for damages since said player added value to not only their brand but the schools?

This is a very interesting question.
If we look at this from the point of view that they are employees of the university (which is an entirely different debate), then I don't think the school has a claim. Here is why- I spend 10 years at company A building my skills and gaining valuable experience from all the company A has to offer. I then decide that company B is a better fit and start working for company B. I certainly benefitted from company A's value but I dont have to give back any salary or bonus to company A if I leave for company B.
This scenario only works if we are using an example from an employee-employer relationship. Athletes may not be considered employees if this were to go to court.

 

[jessej]

How does NIL play into this or separately? If a player makes money off it, does the school have rights to claim since said player used schools sport, facilities, name, etc while creating value to theirs? And what if player wants to transfer? Can school sue for damages since said player added value to not only their brand but the schools?

Consider the Jersey example

Most colleges sell jerseys - but the jerseys only have numbers on them - not names
(although you can find a supplier on ebay or amazon to make you a personalized jersey)
and the colleges get all the money from the sales of that jersey - even though the "value" is the implicit name attached to that number for that university

When NIL is passed - theoretically the players' names goes on the back of that university jersey, then the player and the school must agree on some split of the sales or profits.

 

[Pablo]

Jon Rothstein

@JonRothstein


Sources: The Division 1 Council will meet next week and discuss the necessary criteria for two-time transfers to gain immediate eligibility through waivers in all sports.

1:46 PM · May 12, 2021·Tweet

 

[Pablo]

Jon Rothstein

@JonRothstein
·
12h

Number of players in the transfer portal:

1,663

Number of players who entered the transfer portal and have not currently found a new school:

580

Percentage of players who entered the transfer portal and have not currently found a new school:

35.1%

 

[GMU79]

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
12h

Number of players in the transfer portal:

1,663

Number of players who entered the transfer portal and have not currently found a new school:

580

Percentage of players who entered the transfer portal and have not currently found a new school:

35.1%

Seems like to me those guys are in a fix.
They have told their current team and coaches they don't want to be there, and other schools have said "we don't want you here." Career ender?