OT: Conference Realignment

Patriot8

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Do you have a reference? As I see the opposite.

Arizona gone by next Tuesday.
Washington and Oregon gone by next Friday.
I can understand OSU, WSU, Cal and Stanford wanting to stay - but the others have more money waiting elsewhere.

Search "Pac 12" on twitter for more. All the national writers are saying the same, for now.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1687461243865481216
 
OP
Pablo

Pablo

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"OF ALL THE schools engulfed in all of the speculation, Colorado always made the most sense because of its previous ties to the Big 12, where it was a member from 1996 to 2010, and in the Big Eight for 47 years before that. The idea gained further traction with the hire of coach Deion Sanders, who has yet to coach his first game with the Buffaloes but has already reignited interest in a program that has had no bowl wins and just two winning football seasons since joining the Pac-12 in 2011.

'Quite frankly, Deion was pushing for it,' one Big 12 head coach said.

George said he spoke with all of his head coaches about the potential move, but also acknowledged that playing in the Big 12 will align with how Sanders is recruiting.

'I will tell you there's tremendous benefits for being in the Big 12 for the direction that Coach Prime is going as it relates to recruiting,' George said. 'Being able to play in Orlando against UCF, where he's recruited very heavily. The state of Texas has always been a priority for us, and now playing four teams in that area. ... I tried to include all of our coaches in this, and Coach Prime certainly and I had conversations about this, as well as I did with other coaches.'"
 

jessej

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OP
Pablo

Pablo

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"What's next?​

1:03 p.m. ET: You can expect developments to happen quickly now that Oregon and Washington are headed to the Big Ten. Up next are the expected departures of Arizona, Arizona State and Utah to the Big 12. Arizona is far along in its process and has reportedly applied for acceptance into the Big 12. Arizona State dragged its feet last night in a board of regents meeting and has not yet reached that step, but now its hand has been forced with Oregon and Washington leaving the Pac-12. Utah has not scheduled any discussions with its board of regents but the expectation is the Big 12 is still interested in adding the Utes. It remains to be seen if Arizona State and Utah make final decisions today."
 

Patriot8

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1) I fail to see how you can have a GOR agreement with no valid prospective media deal.
2) The ACC is about to face some legal fights as schools try to pull out of their 12 year deal. No University President in their right mind would sign another long term deal like that.
The Apple deal for the Pac12 clearly wasn't enough to keep Oregon and Washington from going and taking partial shares from the Big10.

The ACC deal is a massive hindrance. I know Florida State is looking at being bought, but they would still have to pay the fees until 2036 unless they find a miracle legal loophole.
 

jessej

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The Apple deal for the Pac12 clearly wasn't enough to keep Oregon and Washington from going and taking partial shares from the Big10.

The ACC deal is a massive hindrance. I know Florida State is looking at being bought, but they would still have to pay the fees until 2036 unless they find a miracle legal loophole.
I believe that the future of the ACC is in the hands of lawyers - for both sides
 

Patriot8

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It's been suggested on twitter by several people, but the ultimate situation for me would be to adopt a semi-English Football model with promotion and relegation.

Two "Top Division" 20-team conferences & two "2nd Division" 20-team conferences.

SEC Big 10
ACC Big 12

Bottom 3 teams from the Top Division go down, Top 3 teams from the 2nd Division move up.

Top 4 teams from each Top Division move onto an 8-team "Champions League" playoff to crown a National Champion.

Revenue split is bigger for Top Divison teams, and even bigger if you advance to the CFP.

The drama in late November would be amazing. Suddenly an otherwise boring matchup between Missouri and Mississippi State becomes extremely meaningful.
 

gmujim92

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It's been suggested on twitter by several people, but the ultimate situation for me would be to adopt a semi-English Football model with promotion and relegation.

Two "Top Division" 20-team conferences & two "2nd Division" 20-team conferences.

SEC Big 10
ACC Big 12

Bottom 3 teams from the Top Division go down, Top 3 teams from the 2nd Division move up.

Top 4 teams from each Top Division move onto an 8-team "Champions League" playoff to crown a National Champion.

Revenue split is bigger for Top Divison teams, and even bigger if you advance to the CFP.

The drama in late November would be amazing. Suddenly an otherwise boring matchup between Missouri and Mississippi State becomes extremely meaningful.
That system would be awesome.

I guess the G5 leagues just become some weird level of their own between the top 2 divisions and FCS?
 

gmujim92

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The Apple deal for the Pac12 clearly wasn't enough to keep Oregon and Washington from going and taking partial shares from the Big10.

The ACC deal is a massive hindrance. I know Florida State is looking at being bought, but they would still have to pay the fees until 2036 unless they find a miracle legal loophole.
They’re gonna buy their way out, then Miami, Clemson, UNC and anyone else who has a spot waiting in the P2 is gonna follow suit.

It’s gonna take a huge $ commitment, but getting locked out of the top 2 leagues as the power, TV revenue and CFP berths are consolidated will be an absolute non-starter for everyone except Notre Dame.
 
OP
Pablo

Pablo

Hall of Famer

"If you’re wondering how we got here, with a 108-year old college sports institution on the verge of collapse, think about the world like a television executive.

You run ESPN and Fox. You’ve made huge, multi-year financial commitments to various college sports conference at a time when the cable business is struggling.

After locking up the SEC, ACC, Big Ten and Big 12, the Pac-12 was the last one sitting out there waiting for its next deal. Without Southern California and UCLA, though, the Pac-12 was down to just a handful of programs with television cachet.

Oregon is a national brand backed by Nike’s dollars and ambition. Washington is located in a major market and has a good history. Colorado has Deion Sanders. Arizona basketball is an annual national title contender, and Arizona State is a massive entity with 150,000 students under its umbrella.

The rest of them? As a television property, you could it take it or leave it. It was late-night filler, barely distinguishable from what the networks already have with Boise State and others in the Mountain West.

Television runs college sports.
That has been true since the 1984 NCAA vs Oklahoma Board of Regents Supreme Court case where schools won the ability to sell their broadcast rights.

But it has never been more true than now."

"In the simplest terms, it comes down to this: By stripping the Pac-12 down for parts, ESPN and Fox are going to end up getting the teams they wanted, without having to pay the teams they didn’t want.

Sorry, Stanford. Best of luck, Cal. Oregon State and Washington State? I’m sorry, who are you again?

Tradition? Geography? Academic might? Clearly, none of that stuff mattered to the schools or the TV networks pulling the strings."

"And given that there’s no major upside here for the other Big Ten schools to add two more good programs that make competition tougher and travel more difficult, it strains credulity to think they did it without the blessing and perhaps even a nudge from their TV partners.

It is probably going to prove good business for Fox and ESPN to fill their college football programming slots with more of the elite brands while having one less conference to worry about."
 

Patriot8

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That system would be awesome.

I guess the G5 leagues just become some weird level of their own between the top 2 divisions and FCS?
With all current P5 football programs (including the remaining Pac12 schools) I came to 69 (nice) total programs. Finish off the remaining 11 spots with the top G5 programs from the AAC, MWC and Sun Belt. Maybe add a 3rd division or something for remaining schools to give them a chance to build and move up.

Get all other sports back into regionally based conferences under the NCAA umbrella.
 
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gmujim92

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023

"If you’re wondering how we got here, with a 108-year old college sports institution on the verge of collapse, think about the world like a television executive.

You run ESPN and Fox. You’ve made huge, multi-year financial commitments to various college sports conference at a time when the cable business is struggling.

After locking up the SEC, ACC, Big Ten and Big 12, the Pac-12 was the last one sitting out there waiting for its next deal. Without Southern California and UCLA, though, the Pac-12 was down to just a handful of programs with television cachet.

Oregon is a national brand backed by Nike’s dollars and ambition. Washington is located in a major market and has a good history. Colorado has Deion Sanders. Arizona basketball is an annual national title contender, and Arizona State is a massive entity with 150,000 students under its umbrella.

The rest of them? As a television property, you could it take it or leave it. It was late-night filler, barely distinguishable from what the networks already have with Boise State and others in the Mountain West.

Television runs college sports.
That has been true since the 1984 NCAA vs Oklahoma Board of Regents Supreme Court case where schools won the ability to sell their broadcast rights.

But it has never been more true than now."

"In the simplest terms, it comes down to this: By stripping the Pac-12 down for parts, ESPN and Fox are going to end up getting the teams they wanted, without having to pay the teams they didn’t want.

Sorry, Stanford. Best of luck, Cal. Oregon State and Washington State? I’m sorry, who are you again?

Tradition? Geography? Academic might? Clearly, none of that stuff mattered to the schools or the TV networks pulling the strings."

"And given that there’s no major upside here for the other Big Ten schools to add two more good programs that make competition tougher and travel more difficult, it strains credulity to think they did it without the blessing and perhaps even a nudge from their TV partners.

It is probably going to prove good business for Fox and ESPN to fill their college football programming slots with more of the elite brands while having one less conference to worry about."
Seems like Dan is arguing that there will be relegation — in the form of ongoing conference consolidation — as marginal programs that have been grandfathered into the P2 are forced out by TV networks looking for the most possible bang for their buck.

I think he’s most likely right.
 
OP
Pablo

Pablo

Hall of Famer

"Arizona, Arizona State and Utah have formally applied for membership to the Big 12, three people familiar with the Big 12’s discussions told The Athletic. The Big 12’s board of presidents and chancellors are meeting Friday night, the sources confirmed, and are expected to accept the three new members.

The three schools would join Colorado in becoming Big 12 members in 2024 at the conclusion of the Pac-12’s current media rights contract, turning the Big 12 into a 16-member conference and leaving the Pac-12 with Cal, Oregon State, Stanford and Washington State as its four remaining members."
 

GMUgemini

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"Arizona, Arizona State and Utah have formally applied for membership to the Big 12, three people familiar with the Big 12’s discussions told The Athletic. The Big 12’s board of presidents and chancellors are meeting Friday night, the sources confirmed, and are expected to accept the three new members.

The three schools would join Colorado in becoming Big 12 members in 2024 at the conclusion of the Pac-12’s current media rights contract, turning the Big 12 into a 16-member conference and leaving the Pac-12 with Cal, Oregon State, Stanford and Washington State as its four remaining members."

Yes. This is official via President Crowe of ASU.

Those four teams should just merge with the Mountain West, keep the PAC-12 name, boot the PAC commissioner and keep the obviously better Mountain West leadership.

And, yes, I’ve said it too many times but it was SCOTUS who screwed up college athletics. And they’re going to force these big conferences to revenue share with their athletes at some point. I honestly don’t see what these schools are going to do with all these billions otherwise.
 
OP
Pablo

Pablo

Hall of Famer
Those four teams should just merge with the Mountain West, keep the PAC-12 name, boot the PAC commissioner and keep the obviously better Mountain West leadership.


"Several Mountain West schools, particularly San Diego State, have already been connected to the Pac-12 as potential expansion targets before this past week. SMU has had conversations, too. But what would they be jumping into exactly? Just as notable is that exit fees for any Group of 5 school to make it to the league would range from prohibitive at best to completely out of the question at worst.

Perhaps it’s possible that a reverse merger with the Mountain West could be engineered, not unlike what happened with the remnants of the old Big 8 and Southwest Conference that gave berth to the Big 12. That could allow the Pac-12 to remain inside the NCAA’s Autonomy Five governance structure and get additional College Football Playoff revenues for each of the next two years.

Pac-12 Commissioner George Kliavkoff, who lives in Las Vegas, understands he was dealt a bad hand to begin with, but enters what should have been a quiet weekend instead fighting for the league’s very existence with few chips to play. It doesn’t help either that, outside of Schultz, much of the conference's leadership among the school presidents is either fresh on the job or extremely inexperienced when it comes to college athletics."
 
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