Hewitt, Extension, wait, what?

[GSII]

Some sooner than others.

 

[gmutom]

Some sooner than others.

GS, I do give you props for being out ahead of this before me and others. Where you and I disagreed was faulting Hewitt for not landing some of the premiere guys you blamed him for not getting.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I blame him for not finding another solution to the PG position even when he couldn't land one of those guys. I know Cornelius dug himself a hole by getting suspended for 10 games, but it shouldn't have taken Hewitt until the second half of the vcu blowout at the CAAT to realize he might have been the solution over Edwards and Allen all along.

If necessity is indeed the mother of invention, Hewitt needed to be more creative to resolve some of our ball-handling issues rather than constantly trying to jam round pegs into square holes.

 

[mkaufman1]

GS, I do give you props for being out ahead of this before me and others. Where you and I disagreed was faulting Hewitt for not landing some of the premiere guys you blamed him for not getting.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I blame him for not finding another solution to the PG position even when he couldn't land one of those guys. I know Cornelius dug himself a hole by getting suspended for 10 games, but it shouldn't have taken Hewitt until the second half of the vcu blowout at the CAAT to realize he might have been the solution over Edwards and Allen all along.

If necessity is indeed the mother of invention, Hewitt needed to be more creative to resolve some of our ball-handling issues rather than constantly trying to jam round pegs into square holes.

I have no idea why Cornelius never ran the point all season. However it was pointed to me by a fellow fan that DJ never seemed so cooperative with the new staff and was constantly being directed on what to do. I also think the staff probably wanted to see what they had in Edwards and Allen and giving them some chances before going to a senior and starting back at square on the following year (potentially).

With that being said, I think Marquise was great as a freshman. He had his good and bad moments, but I was generally impressed with what he did last year. I suspect going forward he will only grow and support the role even more. While we'll see what Jackson can provide, I'm hopeful he can be supportive and both of them will be good in the PG role, supplementing one another.

 

[wijg]

So, I am late to the party on this one. Been away from the boards all week and come back to see this thread (which gave me a heart tack at reading the title).

So, is there actually real discussion between the key parties about Hewitt getting an extension right now?

 

[Dawgs99]

No.....

 

[Quentin Daniels]

Anyone listen to Mike & Mike this morning? At one point they were asking the questions of whether Manning was the GOAT over Montana. One of the arguments in his favor was the number of guys he elevated; eight Manning receives caught 3 touchdowns in a single game at some point including Eric Decker, Emmanuel Sanders and Brandon Stokely. Anyone really think that sounds like an elite group of wideouts?

How about Nick Saban taking over a 2-6 (SEC) Alabama team that only beat Vandy and Ole Miss in OT but went 4-4 the next season, played for an SEC Championship the next year, and won a national title after that?

Or to keep it more local, Larranaga taking over a Westhead team that was mired at the bottom of the CAA for years and winning the championship two years later.

My point is, maybe the talent isn't the problem. What does Corey Edwards look like in year 4 of L's system? Or Vaughn Gray? Or Vertrail Vaughn? Or Johnny Williams? The truth is, L didn't have too many misses in the last seasons based on lack of talent. Even the guys who transferred out (Whack, Foster, Moldovenau) often turned out to have pretty good even if they didn't fit here.

 

[Patriotfan49]

Anyone listen to Mike & Mike this morning? At one point they were asking the questions of whether Manning was the GOAT over Montana. One of the arguments in his favor was the number of guys he elevated; eight Manning receives caught 3 touchdowns in a single game at some point including Eric Decker, Emmanuel Sanders and Brandon Stokely. Anyone really think that sounds like an elite group of wideouts?

How about Nick Saban taking over a 2-6 (SEC) Alabama team that only beat Vandy and Ole Miss in OT but went 4-4 the next season, played for an SEC Championship the next year, and won a national title after that?

Or to keep it more local, Larranaga taking over a Westhead team that was mired at the bottom of the CAA for years and winning the championship two years later.

My point is, maybe the talent isn't the problem. What does Corey Edwards look like in year 4 of L's system? Or Vaughn Gray? Or Vertrail Vaughn? Or Johnny Williams? The truth is, L didn't have too many misses in the last seasons based on lack of talent. Even the guys who transferred out (Whack, Foster, Moldovenau) often turned out to have pretty good even if they didn't fit here.

Manning also throws the ball a million times a game, which inflates the stats over old school football or even todays last few run oriented teams. You cant compare across generations as the game changes. But all time, when I want a championship Im going with Montana. Peyton can own all the records but so far, his only ring came against a Rex Grossman led Bears team.

In regards to our team, talent is not the problem. Wasnt then early in his tenure or now. We surprising recruit well, but the issue is he recruits redundantly. How many tweeners of 6'7 do you really need? In theory athletic tall guys should present mismatches on each end....but if you look at it realistically it leaves us short handed more than it is an actual mismatch in our favor. To slow to guard smaller guards, they cant shoot as well, they cant handle the ball as well etc.

Much like a draft, there is a fine science of athletic and freaks with size or top end attributes (Mike Mo, Kevin Foster, etc) and ballers. When you load up on pure potential guys....more often than not it doesnt pan out. So you need to have some guys who can just play (Thomas, Pearson, Cam etc) to help even it out and have somebody to consistently rely on. Hewitt seems obsessed with one type of player, and continues to get the same guy on campus and tries to apply them to other positions. That makes it even harder for a raw guy to develop, if he has to learn and handle a new position. Because like Allen, it almost becomes a 4 year process to get 1 season of true return. Thats not very efficient, it can provide some exciting times and stretches but it is a very hit or miss way of building a team.

 

[Quentin Daniels]

Just because a guy isn't a superstar every year, I wouldn't label it a season of no returns. 27 minutes, 3 rebounds and 7.3 & 8.5 pts a night on average are stats most guys who have gone through the program would have liked to have had.

 

[gmujim92]

In regards to our team, talent is not the problem. Wasnt then early in his tenure or now. We surprising recruit well, but the issue is he recruits redundantly. How many tweeners of 6'7 do you really need? In theory athletic tall guys should present mismatches on each end....but if you look at it realistically it leaves us short handed more than it is an actual mismatch in our favor. To slow to guard smaller guards, they cant shoot as well, they cant handle the ball as well etc.

Much like a draft, there is a fine science of athletic and freaks with size or top end attributes (Mike Mo, Kevin Foster, etc) and ballers. When you load up on pure potential guys....more often than not it doesnt pan out. So you need to have some guys who can just play (Thomas, Pearson, Cam etc) to help even it out and have somebody to consistently rely on. Hewitt seems obsessed with one type of player, and continues to get the same guy on campus and tries to apply them to other positions. That makes it even harder for a raw guy to develop, if he has to learn and handle a new position. Because like Allen, it almost becomes a 4 year process to get 1 season of true return. Thats not very efficient, it can provide some exciting times and stretches but it is a very hit or miss way of building a team.

Hewitt (mostly) isn't recruiting tweeners. That's actually the whole point -- our previous staff was able to get by with tweeners because we played in the CAA, but that's not gonna cut it if we hope to ever play at the top of the A-10.

While Larranaga mostly recruited skilled players who were a little too short or slow to attract the big boys, Hewitt obviously prefers guys with requisite length and athleticism (even if they're raw) and tries to develop their skills over time .

Mayimba is a 6-7, 200-pound athletic freak who is capable of guarding the 2 or 3.

Porter has elite athleticism at 6-10 and conceivably could be a nice mismatch as a face-up 4.

It remains to be seen if Jackson has the foot speed to guard A-10 PGs, but his length and passing skills will be a weapon on offense.

Lockett is the only real tweener. Then again, Treveon Graham was a 6-4 post in HS and he's now the A-10 preseason POY as a 6-6 wing. So who knows?

I think Hewitt's approach is justified, given that we now play in a league where the top teams either have or are signing 6-7/6-8 wings and 6-10/6-11 posts.

Will Thomas is a noteworthy exception because he was a warrior and played bigger than 6-7, 230, but you can't win in one of America's top 6 basketball leagues by relying on finding nothing but Will Thomases.

 

[Patriotfan49]

By tweener I was referring to guys of the size to play down by the basket but by nature of having a lot of them, some have to play as a wing. AO comes to mind. Can't teach size, and that's good for us...but with some of our holes on the floor..seems strange that 3/4 of our signings are that 6'7 athlete kind of guy. Sometimes, we just need a more natural pg or SG etc, instead of always trying to land that potential holy grail Kevin Durant sizes anomaly. (This is just preseason talk, before we get an idea who the guys are in games).

The incoming guys we can't really speak on, they have yet to suit up. So they may be more natural wings, but just have great size...we will see.

 

[KAOriginal]

I agree. Hewitt has no problem getting some talent. Its doing something with them that's the problem.

As Tom pointed out earlier going to AC in the tournament to finally solve your ball handling problem was a huge red flag.

Even if AC was a turd, I have to believe he could have been won over..but then again strong personalities at play....

 

[Quentin Daniels]

How many of these guys wouldn't be able to thrive in the A-10 today?

Jesse Young
Rob Anderson
Jon Larranaga
Mark Davis
Lamar Butler
Jai Lewis
Tony Skinn
Terry Reynolds
John Vaughan
Folarin Campbell
Will Thomas
Dre Smith
Darryl Monroe
Cam Long
Ryan Pearson
Mike Morrison
Luke Hancock

 

[GMUgemini]

How many of these guys wouldn't be able to thrive in the A-10 today?

Jesse Young
Rob Anderson
Jon Larranaga
Mark Davis
Lamar Butler
Jai Lewis
Tony Skinn
Terry Reynolds
John Vaughan
Folarin Campbell
Will Thomas
Dre Smith
Darryl Monroe
Cam Long
Ryan Pearson
Mike Morrison
Luke Hancock

I understand your point here, and I agree with it, but I think it's the wrong response to Jim's point. The real question is how many of GMU's men's basketball teams would have won the A-10 championship or competed for an at-large bid? Because guys like Dre Smith and Darryl Monroe and Folarin Campbell played with guys like Jordan Carter and Chris Fleming and Jesus Urbina and Sammy Hernandez. Our benches for the most part have been pretty thin historically.

I think maybe three would have had a good shot (George Evans' senior season: 2001; the Final Four team 2006 and the Cam Long-led 2011 Patriots -- in other words, pretty much the three best teams in the history of George Mason men's basketball).

 

[polepino]

We thought Edwards might be that guy when Coach L initially signed him (and Hewitt re-recruited him), but he plays way too scared and passively to thrive in a position that relies so much on self confidence and aggressiveness. Hewitt needed to realize this much earlier.

Coach L never really had a true PG other than Tremaine Price, but he adjusted and found a way to creatively use guys like his son Jon, Tony Skinn and Folarin to get the ball up the court and get our offense in motion. I don't fault Hewitt for not landing the top guys like Quarterman (who incidentally hasn't lived up to the hype at LSU yet), but he's absolutely to blame for not addressing/resolving the situation better.
.

I always wonder if L's recruits would have had a better time working through the offense in his system(regimented) vs Hewitt's(free flowing). I would assume so since they were recruited for L's system.

 

[Quentin Daniels]

I understand your point here, and I agree with it, but I think it's the wrong response to Jim's point. The real question is how many of GMU's men's basketball teams would have won the A-10 championship or competed for an at-large bid? Because guys like Dre Smith and Darryl Monroe and Folarin Campbell played with guys like Jordan Carter and Chris Fleming and Jesus Urbina and Sammy Hernandez. Our benches for the most part have been pretty thin historically.

I think maybe three would have had a good shot (George Evans' senior season: 2001; the Final Four team 2006 and the Cam Long-led 2011 Patriots -- in other words, pretty much the three best teams in the history of George Mason men's basketball).

But those and the Thomas/Vaughn/Campbell/Smith are also the only ones that won a CAA Championship too - and I'd include that '08 squad as well that beat #18 K-State, South Carolina and played competitively against #20 Villanova. Also the Chik-Fil-A massacre team that beat Drexel 85-38.

 

[GMUgemini]

But those and the Thomas/Vaughn/Campbell/Smith are also the only ones that won a CAA Championship too - and I'd include that '08 squad as well that beat #18 K-State, South Carolina and played competitively against #20 Villanova. Also the Chik-Fil-A massacre team that beat Drexel 85-38.

Actually the 2006 and 2011 teams were at-large teams. The 1999 and 2008 teams I were excluding (remember the 2008 team finished third in the regular season and had the benefit of playing a W&M team who upset vcu for their championship).

 

[GSII]

GS, I do give you props for being out ahead of this before me and others. Where you and I disagreed was faulting Hewitt for not landing some of the premiere guys you blamed him for not getting.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I blame him for not finding another solution to the PG position even when he couldn't land one of those guys. I know Cornelius dug himself a hole by getting suspended for 10 games, but it shouldn't have taken Hewitt until the second half of the vcu blowout at the CAAT to realize he might have been the solution over Edwards and Allen all along.

If necessity is indeed the mother of invention, Hewitt needed to be more creative to resolve some of our ball-handling issues rather than constantly trying to jam round pegs into square holes.

The Pg position is crucial to his 4 out offense. Its needs a stud. I was pissed he wouldnt adjust to fit his talent and for not solving the issue sooner. Instead we got Okajoke. He really mis managed the situation. Now Moore does look pretty good. Hopefylly, that jumper is fixed.

 

[GMUgemini]

The Pg position is crucial to his 4 out offense. Its needs a stud. I was pissed he wouldnt adjust to fit his talent and for not solving the issue sooner. Instead we got Okajoke. He really mis managed the situation. Now Moore does look pretty good. Hopefylly, that jumper is fixed.

Considering who we have on this team, we should be playing a double post offense, and if you want to flex Marko or Royal to the top of the key, that's fine, that's Marko's shot anyway.

 

[GSII]

I have a hard time figuring out these players' roles. They probably do too.

 

[Herndon]

I have no magic number for wins, but "improving standing because other people got worse" is not good enough for me.

I'm taking a Potter Stewart approach here, and if I see a team that looks like it is well coached, I'm on board.

I happen to be excited about Hewitt's recruiting the past couple years. It's not the kind of guy/style I particularly enjoy watching, but you can win with an ultra athletic-long team that really gets after it on the defensive end, and creates mismatches on the other.

Those who remember will tell you I'm the FURTHEST thing from a Hewitt guy, but if these guys look like they're being coached, I'd be okay with a one year extension to keep the ball rolling.