Goodbye Jordan Miller

[gmujim92]

In this new transfer world there was zero guarantee any of the guys who left would have stayed even if we kept DP. Based on what we’ve seen the last 3 weeks, the takeaway should be: you’re going to lose players every year for one reason or another so you’d better have a coach who can recruit.

 

[GMU79]

Its a little perplexing....aside that it's ACC and south beach, Miller is joining the walking dead. How would anyone get pumped up playing for a 105 yr old cuban with squeaky hip?? Something isn't right. Probably all Caputo's doing. Bitter, short guys do things like this.

Hey, careful. If you had said "old" bitter short guys, I would have been offended.

 

[Masonfan3]

If you don’t think that Schwartz is an upgrade on Miller idk what to tell you. He had solid numbers in a much tougher conference. Better shooter, better defender, not as good of a rebounder. I’d throw down my next mortgage payment that Schwartz’s PAC12 numbers last season will look better than Millers ACC numbers next season. We got the better player at this position out of all this.

Never said that Schwartz wasn't better because I think he probably is. Both players are very good and we would be a better team with both of them. That is all I was saying. Will Miller shoot 40% from 3, probably not but I wouldn't be surprised to see him average over 10 and 6 next year. Miami is horrible and I see him getting a lot of PT so he will have more opportunities. He also has 2 years of eligibility left so he will only get better playing against the better competition. I am beyond happy with the team KE is putting together, just wish Miller was going to be a part of it as I like his game.

 

[gmujim92]

Never said that Schwartz wasn't better because I think he probably is. Both players are very good and we would be a better team with both of them. That is all I was saying. Will Miller shoot 40% from 3, probably not but I wouldn't be surprised to see him average over 10 and 6 next year. Miami is horrible and I see him getting a lot of PT so he will have more opportunities. He also has 2 years of eligibility left so he will only get better playing against the better competition. I am beyond happy with the team KE is putting together, just wish Miller was going to be a part of it as I like his game.

I don’t think anyone is saying they didn’t want Miller and Kolek to stay. But it’s safe to say Dave would not have signed anyone close to the caliber of Schwartz and Cooper to replace them. So we’re at least gonna have a competitive roster instead of fighting to stay out of the PIG ... all things considered that’s progress.

 

[MASONscott]

I don’t think anyone is saying they didn’t want Miller and Kolek to stay. But it’s safe to say Dave would not have signed anyone close to the caliber of Schwartz and Cooper to replace them. So we’re at least gonna have a competitive roster instead of fighting to stay out of the PIG ... all things considered that’s progress.

Just to take that a step further - this may have been the best year for KE to replace Paulsen. It is a perfect storm to reload a team with the COVID rules adding a year of eligibility, relaxed transfer rules, and KE is an exciting up and comer who can recruit.

 

[Mason32]

In this new transfer world there was zero guarantee any of the guys who left would have stayed even if we kept DP. Based on what we’ve seen the last 3 weeks, the takeaway should be: you’re going to lose players every year for one reason or another so you’d better have a coach who can recruit.

I'm not so sure we lose Miller in a normal transfer year, Kolek probably so

 

[He15man]

I'm going to remain (blindly) optimistic/hopeful that Tyler comes back into the fold until I see a definitive statement saying he's going elsewhere. I really liked what I saw of him this past year and would love to see him on an English-coached team.

 

[gmubrian]

I understand, to some degree, the people that are holding CKE to his words. I know, I for one, got tired of the empty coach speak and baseless platitudes that seemed to roll from Paulsen and would hold him to his words. So, it would be a little hypocritical to not hold do the same for CKE.

That being said, if I recall correctly, when he made the "judge me" statement, he was hyper focused on Oduro, he mentioned Miller and then added Kolek almost as an afterthought. So it seemed to me that Oduro was his key focus, we thought he had a small chance with Miller and knew Kolek was a long shot at best. Additionally, I assume he factored in his ability to replace the slots and felt Oduro was much harder to replace than Miller and Kolek. In case it isn't clear, Miller and Kolek were both great, I am not in any way saying they aren't. I am just suggesting that maybe CKE knew his pipeline and was less concerned about replacing them and or saw the writing on the wall. So, I take this as a push for CKE. He got Oduro as his primary target. If he had gotten one or both of the other two, it would have been overachieving.

 

[tblack33]

I understand, to some degree, the people that are holding CKE to his words. I know, I for one, got tired of the empty coach speak and baseless platitudes that seemed to roll from Paulsen and would hold him to his words. So, it would be a little hypocritical to not hold do the same for CKE.

That being said, if I recall correctly, when he made the "judge me" statement, he was hyper focused on Oduro, he mentioned Miller and then added Kolek almost as an afterthought. So it seemed to me that Oduro was his key focus, we thought he had a small chance with Miller and knew Kolek was a long shot at best. Additionally, I assume he factored in his ability to replace the slots and felt Oduro was much harder to replace than Miller and Kolek. In case it isn't clear, Miller and Kolek were both great, I am not in any way saying they aren't. I am just suggesting that maybe CKE knew his pipeline and was less concerned about replacing them and or saw the writing on the wall. So, I take this as a push for CKE. He got Oduro as his primary target. If he had gotten one or both of the other two, it would have been overachieving.

Agree, context is super important in evaluating his statement (way too early as he’s been here for 6 weeks lol).

But he said he wanted to keep the core of the team intact. Agree Josh was clearly the number 1 target and we landed him so success. Miller is obviously gone but before he left we managed to snag a stud who is arguably an upgrade so did we really lose anything from the core of the roster there? Jury is still out on if Kolek stays but even if he doesn’t we’ve brought in two guys who can make up the production with those minutes.

I understand wanting to be fair on critiquing statements like this but context is important, English saying to evaluate him on keeping the core intact and getting us to where we are today is very different than say a coach telling you a 170 lb freshman is going to make you forget about the schools all time leader in blocks then essentially red shirting him for a season. English has taken a different path than we thought based on his statements, but I’d still argue that right now the “core” of our team is still intact.

 

[psyclone]

I understand, to some degree, the people that are holding CKE to his words. I know, I for one, got tired of the empty coach speak and baseless platitudes that seemed to roll from Paulsen and would hold him to his words. So, it would be a little hypocritical to not hold do the same for CKE.

That being said, if I recall correctly, when he made the "judge me" statement, he was hyper focused on Oduro, he mentioned Miller and then added Kolek almost as an afterthought. So it seemed to me that Oduro was his key focus, we thought he had a small chance with Miller and knew Kolek was a long shot at best. Additionally, I assume he factored in his ability to replace the slots and felt Oduro was much harder to replace than Miller and Kolek. In case it isn't clear, Miller and Kolek were both great, I am not in any way saying they aren't. I am just suggesting that maybe CKE knew his pipeline and was less concerned about replacing them and or saw the writing on the wall. So, I take this as a push for CKE. He got Oduro as his primary target. If he had gotten one or both of the other two, it would have been overachieving.

I think this is a reasonable "read" of what English said in his introductory press conference. I too was struck by his emphasis on Oduro and barely mentioning Kolek. Somehow I think that I read somewhere that Kolek was not present at that press conference so there might not have been the same opportunity to speak to him directly. Nevertheless, he did speak to Josh directly several times.

 

[Petey Buckets]

I understand, to some degree, the people that are holding CKE to his words. I know, I for one, got tired of the empty coach speak and baseless platitudes that seemed to roll from Paulsen and would hold him to his words. So, it would be a little hypocritical to not hold do the same for CKE.

That being said, if I recall correctly, when he made the "judge me" statement, he was hyper focused on Oduro, he mentioned Miller and then added Kolek almost as an afterthought. So it seemed to me that Oduro was his key focus, we thought he had a small chance with Miller and knew Kolek was a long shot at best. Additionally, I assume he factored in his ability to replace the slots and felt Oduro was much harder to replace than Miller and Kolek. In case it isn't clear, Miller and Kolek were both great, I am not in any way saying they aren't. I am just suggesting that maybe CKE knew his pipeline and was less concerned about replacing them and or saw the writing on the wall. So, I take this as a push for CKE. He got Oduro as his primary target. If he had gotten one or both of the other two, it would have been overachieving.

In my opinion English absolutely knocked the introductory presser out of the park, but he set himself up for this accountability by very publicly making the statements others have mentioned. You can make arguments about what he was emphasizing but he was pretty clear the core was Miller, Oduro, and Kolek. I love that he took a public chance like that but it's debatably the only misstep of the presser. You can say very nice things and publicly recruit the guys without being as direct as he was (but that doesn't seem to be his style). I love the talent we're bringing in and wouldn't call this offseason a "failure" by any stretch, but that's the standard CKE set with his own words so @smccart5's post isn't ridiculous at all.

At the end of the day all that matters is wins and losses. I'm getting excited for next year but it's not really debatable that we'd be looking better with Miller still on the roster.

 

[gmujim92]

I'm getting excited for next year but it's not really debatable that we'd be looking better with Miller still on the roster.

If KE can land Daniel Oladapo at the 4 with Oduro, Schwartz, Cooper and Polite, that’s a significant upgrade over our lineup from 2020-21. I don’t see how anyone could argue it’s not.

The depth figures to be better too with Mbaye, Gaines and Gray, plus hopefully improvements from Frazier and Henry.

All in all, I expect to be much better (especially on defense) but I guess we’ll see what happens.

 

[GMUgemini]

They already removed Kolek from the roster on the Mason website. He’s gone.

Yes, so like I said, without either Kolek or Miller you've got two spots of uncertainty in the starting 5.

Another option: Mbaye really can be a stretch 4 and he kills it.

In my opinion English absolutely knocked the introductory presser out of the park, but he set himself up for this accountability by very publicly making the statements others have mentioned. You can make arguments about what he was emphasizing but he was pretty clear the core was Miller, Oduro, and Kolek. I love that he took a public chance like that but it's debatably the only misstep of the presser. You can say very nice things and publicly recruit the guys without being as direct as he was (but that doesn't seem to be his style). I love the talent we're bringing in and wouldn't call this offseason a "failure" by any stretch, but that's the standard CKE set with his own words so @smccart5's post isn't ridiculous at all.

At the end of the day all that matters is wins and losses. I'm getting excited for next year but it's not really debatable that we'd be looking better with Miller still on the roster.

I thought it was a risky move, to be sure, especially when he called out Miller and kept saying stuff like "when you were watching tape did you see teammates ball watch while their man ran around them for the rebound? Did you see teammates..."

His pitch seemed to work on Oduro and not on Miller; Kolek still TBD. He's obviously really intense and that works for some players and not for others. We need players who are bought in 100% because it's not going to work otherwise.

More than the transfers he brought in, I'm actually really interested to see what happens with Frazier, Polite, Henry, and XJ (even Hartwell) under KE.

 

[gmujim92]

Yes, so like I said, without either Kolek or Miller you've got two spots of uncertainty in the starting 5.

Another option: Mbaye really can be a stretch 4 and he kills it.


I thought it was a risky move, to be sure, especially when he called out Miller and kept saying stuff like "when you were watching tape did you see teammates ball watch while their man ran around them for the rebound? Did you see teammates..."

His pitch seemed to work on Oduro and not on Miller; Kolek still TBD. He's obviously really intense and that works for some players and not for others. We need players who are bought in 100% because it's not going to work otherwise.

More than the transfers he brought in, I'm actually really interested to see what happens with Frazier, Polite, Henry, and XJ (even Hartwell) under KE.

Polite’s game is going to take off. He needed a year to get acclimated but he’s gonna thrive in a system where he gets to push the ball and play in the open floor.

 

[gmubrian]

At the end of the day all that matters is wins and losses. I'm getting excited for next year but it's not really debatable that we'd be looking better with Miller still on the roster.

From a count perspective, roster management is a zero sum game. You can't just keep someone, you have to free up a scholarship slot. For now, if we assume Kolek has right of first refusal on the last slot for next year, that means we don't get one of the new recruits. For the sake of argument, assume CKE doesn't force one of the lesser contributors out either. Which of the new recruits would you forgo to keep Miller and would you still say definitively that we'd be looking better?

 

[GMU79]

I understand, to some degree, the people that are holding CKE to his words. I know, I for one, got tired of the empty coach speak and baseless platitudes that seemed to roll from Paulsen and would hold him to his words. So, it would be a little hypocritical to not hold do the same for CKE.

That being said, if I recall correctly, when he made the "judge me" statement, he was hyper focused on Oduro, he mentioned Miller and then added Kolek almost as an afterthought. So it seemed to me that Oduro was his key focus, we thought he had a small chance with Miller and knew Kolek was a long shot at best. Additionally, I assume he factored in his ability to replace the slots and felt Oduro was much harder to replace than Miller and Kolek. In case it isn't clear, Miller and Kolek were both great, I am not in any way saying they aren't. I am just suggesting that maybe CKE knew his pipeline and was less concerned about replacing them and or saw the writing on the wall. So, I take this as a push for CKE. He got Oduro as his primary target. If he had gotten one or both of the other two, it would have been overachieving.

Maybe you are right. I thought he was referencing the core 3, and maybe he was, albeit secondarily. And I agree, losing two of them, though not optimal, won't have nearly the negative affect it would have had under DP. KE has great contacts. I'm sure he will pull in equal or better players.

 

[ephoops]

Polite’s game is going to take off. He needed a year to get acclimated but he’s gonna thrive in a system where he gets to push the ball and play in the open floor.

I agree Polite has the potential to thrive under English.

That said, he needs to significantly improve his outside shooting. I believe English can help him with this as well.

He should be shooting 1,000 jump shots a day in the practice facility.

 

[GMU79]

From a count perspective, roster management is a zero sum game. You can't just keep someone, you have to free up a scholarship slot. For now, if we assume Kolek has right of first refusal on the last slot for next year, that means we don't get one of the new recruits. For the sake of argument, assume CKE doesn't force one of the lesser contributors out either. Which of the new recruits would you forgo to keep Miller and would you still say definitively that we'd be looking better?

If Kolek is going I wish he would go ahead and go and free up KE to do whatever needs to be done. C'mon, kid, make up your mind.

 

[smccart5]

He also said, when referring to keeping the core "if you're going to judge me, judge me by this." Was it coach speak? Did he mean it? Did he swing and miss?
Who knows. All we do know is that next year's team is going to look very different, and hopefully, much improved.

wow definitely the most reaction to one of my posts! He did mention judging him by this in the presser. I also listened to the By George podcast (which was great) which covered the event, and in their 1:1 interview i believe KE doubled down on the "judge me by this" type of language, referring to keeping the core of the team.

I fully support Coach E and think he will be a great coach. I like so much about what he brings to the table, plus the transfers look solid. As GMU79 said, who knows how we'll be next year. I think if we kept the guys we wanted plus added 2-3 solid transfers we would be going into next season having a much better idea of what the team could accomplish.

 

[GreenLantern]

Hey, careful. If you had said "old" bitter short guys, I would have been offended.

Well, I'm old, short and bitter so I must be offended!