Gameday Experience

gmubrian

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No, that is not what I'm saying at all. I was calling out the trolls who complain but never do anything about it, because I think some people here just like to complain for complaining's sake. I don't put you in that category. You say you've tried to reach out, and I believe you because I've met you in the past and I know you genuinely care about Mason basketball. I've also detected a strategic approach in your rants on here.

But in case there's any confusion:

- We're stuck with the athletic department we have. As fans, we can either complain on anonymous message boards, or we can do something to help them see what we perceive as blind spots. If they rebuff you like what happened to Brian, then fine, but at least make the effort.

- If I really care about fixing a situation, ultimately it doesn't matter who is at fault for a communication breakdown, and so I don't let that stop me. Instead, I reach out to that person anyway. (Again, Brian, this isn't aimed at you, you seem to have made more than adequate attempts to do this.)

- When I have contacted folks at Mason in the past, sometimes I have learned why they didn't do x or y that had seemed obvious to me. There could be circumstances you're not aware of. You can't get that sort of feedback unless you make direct contact, and so you're left to wonder why it doesn't happen.

- This has nothing to do with whether the boards are read or not. I assume people in the AD office read at least some of what's posted here. However, feedback from a real person with a name and a face is going to be taken more seriously than feedback from a nameless, faceless internet poster. It also has the added benefit of putting someone on the spot to respond, unlike a message board, which can be ignored.

- Everyone I have dealt with in the Mason AD (with the exception of a certain former head coach) has taken me seriously when I have offered feedback and constructive criticism.
I agree with you, mostly... I still think the AD absolutely sucks in terms of engaging with fans to build on their excitement.

I love your passion for the program. I used to be exactly where you are until the enthusiasm was sucked out of me by the AD. Unfortunately, the final straws came under the current management...

Keep up the enthusiasm and don't let my negative views of the AD deter you. Hopefully your experience is a sign that things are heading in the right direction there.
 

Vurbel

Hall of Famer

I've had this debate for years.

I hate the "but they work hard so it's a sport" argument. I worked hard at algebra in high school.

"But it's physical!" So is washing my car, is that a sport?

"There won't be people who want to do it, now." The Green Machine doesn't compete nationally, last I checked. They seem to be doing fine.

I'm as pro-Title 9 as it comes, but BE is doing the right thing on this.
 

GMUSig03

All-Conference
I've had this debate for years.

I hate the "but they work hard so it's a sport" argument. I worked hard at algebra in high school.

"But it's physical!" So is washing my car, is that a sport?

"There won't be people who want to do it, now." The Green Machine doesn't compete nationally, last I checked. They seem to be doing fine.

I'm as pro-Title 9 as it comes, but BE is doing the right thing on this.

I begrudgingly agree, assuming this is a cost saving move. We have limited financial resources, I'm all for strategically limiting/spending those resources.

And the Green Machine doesn't compete nationally because no one is willing to compete against them.

Edit - I think the decision should only go into effect once all current Masonettes graduate (since they theoretically chose to come here for the chance to compete Nationally) and they should be given every opportunity to raise money to fund their competitions, as club teams do.
 

KAOriginal

All-American
If a cheerleader or dancer wants to "compete" then they can go to a school that has such a program.

Except for legal reasons....if Mason doesn't want to spend the money, then Mason doesn't have to spend the money.

Universities/colleges, etc....can't fund everything for everybody.
 
OP
GSII

GSII

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IMO, when you cut a sport/cheer, and nobody steps up to finance it, then you know it was the right thing. Therefore, BE should start cutting more sports so more money goes towards Mens Bball. If he cuts a sports that people like, have them pay to keep it and everyone wins.
 

Falco

Hall of Famer
GIVING DAY 2023
IMO, when you cut a sport/cheer, and nobody steps up to finance it, then you know it was the right thing. Therefore, BE should start cutting more sports so more money goes towards Mens Bball. If he cuts a sports that people like, have them pay to keep it and everyone wins.
I like this thought. But do you think someone would step up to the plate and fund basketball if he decided to cut it?
 

Vurbel

Hall of Famer
I like this thought. But do you think someone would step up to the plate and fund basketball if he decided to cut it?

Not one person, but a group of people would. Like staff, students, alumni.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
GSII

GSII

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I like this thought. But do you think someone would step up to the plate and fund basketball if he decided to cut it?

Why would he cut bball? So he would end up firing himself? :bricks::bricks::bricks::bricks:
 

Pablo

Hall of Famer
I like this thought. But do you think someone would step up to the plate and fund basketball if he decided to cut it?

Obviously, the AD will not cut the men's basketball program. So, are you asking what would happen to the program if Mason stopped funding it with the students' activities fees?
 

GMUgemini

Hall of Famer
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I've had this debate for years.

I hate the "but they work hard so it's a sport" argument. I worked hard at algebra in high school.

"But it's physical!" So is washing my car, is that a sport?

"There won't be people who want to do it, now." The Green Machine doesn't compete nationally, last I checked. They seem to be doing fine.

I'm as pro-Title 9 as it comes, but BE is doing the right thing on this.

The only reason why it's not considered a sport is because the national competitions don't have standardized scoring, otherwise competitive cheerleading would be pretty much the same as gymnastics.
 

Plink833

Preferred Walk-On
SARAH GISH RESPONSE TO BRAD EDWARDS, MASON ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. Please read, share, and sign our petition!

***CLARIFICATION***

Thank you all for your support of the Masonettes! Due to the publicity my post is getting, I wanted to make two extremely important clarifications.

1. It is my understanding that the rumor is that the Coach of the Masonettes is behind this protest. This is 100% untrue. The Masonettes Alumni have come together to save our beloved program. Everything I wrote below is my own. The Coach has had nothing to do with our protest, the petition, my post, or my personal opinions.

2. I and the other Masonettes and alumni hold absolutely no ill will toward anyone in or affiliated with Doc Nix and the Green Machine. They are an extremely talented group of individuals who deserve every bit of privilege they are given at George Mason. I used our history with the Green Machine as an example as to why Mr. Edwards was in poor taste in attempting to compare us where there is no comparison.

Thanks again for your support. More to come.

****

Dear Mr. Edwards,

1. "We have received your emails with your concerns regarding the competitive element of the Mason spirit teams."

Thank you for acknowledging that we have reached out to you. Why did you not respond to the Coaching staff when they reached out to you as well? I am receiving the message that you are willing to talk to anyone but the coaching staff. This concerns me for the state of the GMU Athletic Department as a whole.

2. "First of all, we very much value our entire spirit squad."

Thank you, however it is my opinion that while you indeed value it, you do not in the least understand it. Nor have you attempted to understand it, which you made painfully clear by not consulting anyone on the coaching staff before you made an uneducated decision.

3. "The primary purpose of the Masonettes, outside of earning a college degree, is to promote and enhance game day atmosphere."

That’s right. The Masonettes are model student-athletes. In fact, the Masonettes consistently hold the highest average GPA out of all of the athletic teams at George Mason University. That is one of the reasons I feel you have made a grave mistake.

The Masonettes promote and enhance game day atmosphere by performing for the crowd during athletic games. In order to perform, they need to train and practice. A dance team without proper training and dance background can be an embarrassment to the school. Removing the prospect of competition will greatly decrease the level of interest and therefore will decrease the level of talent that shows up to audition for the Masonettes. Lack of talent will have a direct negative impact on game day atmosphere.

4. "The Mason Spirit Program creates energy inside EagleBank Arena, fosters camaraderie with our fans and makes our athletic department and the Fairfax County community a more vibrant and welcoming place."

As a Masonette veteran, I am well aware of what the Masonettes do as I spent four years of my life practicing, training and lifting weights, running around a track, attending mandatory study hours, getting randomly drug tested as per NCAA rules (yet not being recognized as an NCAA sport), performing at athletic events, volunteering at university and local events, spending over $5,000 of my family’s own money to pay for all of this, giving up my entire winter break to stay on campus and cheer at basketball games in addition to practicing twice a day every day, attending camps in the off season and competing at the national level every year to represent the school that I was so very proud to represent, all while being treated like absolute dirt by George Mason University. But I did it with a smile because honestly, women’s sports are used to being treated like dirt. Why do you think Title IX is a thing?

5. "This is the part of the program our Mason Athletics prioritizes, and because of that, continuing to focus on the competitive aspect does not align with our department’s ongoing strategic plan or the current NCAA collegiate athletics landscape."

This is the part where it’s clear to me you have made little time to understand what a dance team is and does. How will competing nationally interfere with the Masonettes’ ability to “create energy inside EagleBank Arena, foster camaraderie with our fans and make our athletic department and the Fairfax County community a more vibrant and welcoming place”??? The competitive aspect is what draws talented, committed dancers to the Masonettes. Without the aspect of competition, there will be a lower commitment level. The dancers will be less interested in showing up and training hard. George Mason University does not offer scholarships for Dance Team as they do for Cheerleading and other sports. Without the opportunity to compete, there is little to entice talented dancers to audition. Your decision will have the direct opposite impact on your plan.

The Masonettes compete against all of the Division 1 Schools in the US. We watch with awe as the University of Minnesota wins year after year with their impressive athleticism and technique. This University and many others, has both Football and Basketball. They cheer for Volleyball, Lacrosse, Track…. All while maintaining high GPAs, working out, practicing, fundraising and COMPETING NATIONALLY. What makes you think the Masonettes will not be able to manage their time accordingly? I ask you again… what does increasing the Masonettes’ visibility at school events have to do with national competition?

6. "By way of process, an internal committee was formed and charged with evaluating all aspects of the spirit program."

If this is indeed true, why did you not inform the Coaching staff of the Masonettes that this was taking place? Why did you not ask them for their side of the story? For valuable historical information? They have been involved with the team for 20 years. You have been at Mason for 3 years. As a US Government Contracting professional, I have studied Root Cause Analysis and Corrective Action for nearly 10 years. A major component of Root Cause Analysis is studying all aspects of the problem. By leaving the coaching staff in the dark, you have intentionally swayed the decision and therefore the findings of your committee would be considered incomplete and invalid by any reputable organization.

7. "This study revealed that the teams’ participation in the non-NCAA affiliated competition carried with it major deficit spending that continues to grow at a double digit pace annually and has been covered each year with funds raised from our NCAA sport programs."

Your “internal committee” must not be very good at math. If they had done any research at all, they would have found that the Masonettes’ budget has been $5,000.00 every year since 1992. You must be a very smart man, because you are now the AD at a D1 school. So you know that nothing today costs what it did in 1992. I did a quick calculation and $5,000 in 1992 is equivalent to $8,753.88 today. In fact, if you add up the cost of inflation over the last 25 years, it appears YOU (the University) owe the Masonettes over $18,000.00. That would easily cover the $14,000 debt that you are claiming is the “purely financial” reason that the Masonettes can no longer compete.

(Although I am confused because even when we alumni offered to pay the school $24,000, the total amount of debt without the Patriot Club account, you still said they could no longer compete because the Cheerleaders (a completely different organization) can’t compete. And the cheerleaders can’t compete because they have a high cost of insurance. Are you following this? Is this confusing to you? I bet it is. It’s also confusing to all the media that are now following our story.)

I explained this in my last letter, but you didn’t read it. While Cheerleading and Dance Team fall under the “spirit” umbrella, they are not the same thing. They require different skills and athletic abilities. A baseball player would not make the basketball team. Just like a Masonette would not make the cheerleading team. George Mason University has failed to recognize the difference between these two sports for years.

I would also like to know how many other GMU athletic teams have had the same budget, with no increase, since 1992?

ALSO, please note that there is no NCAA-affiliated competition for cheer or dance. If there was, we’d be competing at it.
 

Plink833

Preferred Walk-On
8. "The opportunity to perform for our home events should not be taken lightly."

When did we EVER say it was taken lightly? As a Masonette of the “Final Four” era, I understand the privilege of performing and representing our school. That’s why I loved competing, because I was able to represent George Mason on the National stage, not only during the Final Four, but for years before and for years afterwards as I annually support the Masonettes at competition.

The University is still riding on the coattails of the Final Four run. I should remind you that the incoming freshmen this year were in 2nd grade when this monumental history took place. It is not relevant in their memory. The Masonettes have consistently placed higher than the GMU men’s basketball team (in the top 10 for Division 1 Schools) for 10 YEARS. That makes the Masonettes more relevant than basketball in terms of national recognition. Taking this privilege away will only hurt George Mason University.

9. "In fact, we feel it is a tremendous privilege and the performances are enjoyed and appreciated by our fan base, in many ways similar to that of the Green Machine."

The fact that you just brought up the Green Machine is the ultimate insult and a complete slap in the face. If you had made any effort to understand the spirit program at George Mason before cutting it off at the knees, you would understand that the Green Machine is a mega sore spot. I actually explained this in my original e-mail, but you obviously did not read it. So I will explain again. In 2002 when I joined the Masonettes, we danced to the music of the “Pep Band” (now the Green Machine, since I know you don’t know your Mason history) before home basketball games. The Pep Band was a bit of a joke. It was a small (maybe 10 or so members) rag tag group of amateur musicians who often couldn’t stay on beat, making it very difficult to dance to their music. Even back then as they are today, the Masonettes were placing top 10 in competition, but were forced to pay out of pocket for everything, get changed behind a curtain under the bleachers with poor lighting and no electrical outlets, subject to NCAA rules but no benefits, and often ignored and disrespected by the Mason Athletics staff.

Quickly, it was 2006 and I was a senior. We were in the middle of a crazy basketball tournament run. The 10 member Pep Band was still showing up to the games in their yellow/green jerseys which were provided by the school. Suddenly we were in the Final Four. How crazy was that, right? It was time to make arrangements for the Masonettes to fly to Indianapolis on the team plane so we could support our basketball team on the big stage. Except we were informed that there was only room for 6 of us on the plane. Being Captain, I got to go. But the entire rest of my team drove across the US in their PERSONAL VEHICLES to support the GMU Men’s Basketball Team in the Final Four.

When we boarded the plane, in addition to the team, and the few select Masonettes and cheerleaders, there were suddenly 20-25 members of the Pep Band. Where did they come from? The Pep Band had suddenly doubled. Half of these people had never worked at a single basketball game, and here they were riding for free on the team plane! All while the Masonettes drove 12 hours by car to the Final Four, after spending 4 years cheering at every single home game. Brad, let’s pretend you aren’t a male chauvinist. How would this have made you feel?

I also want to mention that it is my understanding the Green Machine gets paid to perform at basketball games. I also know that they were off at a drum line competition this past weekend. How can you compare us to and encourage us to strive to be like the Green Machine, when the Masonettes have been in existence for 3 times as long, and don’t get any of the same benefits?

10. "That will remain our priority and focus as we look with excitement to enhance our program to the greatest degree possible going forward."

I am totally on board with enhancing the program to the greatest degree possible. But what you have done is take a giant step backward. Women’s sports (whether they are officially recognized by the NCAA or not) are important for growth and education. You would think a modern University such as Mason would value a chance for women to grow and learn, not take it away from them. Whether or not it was your intention, by taking away the ability of these athletes to compete in their sport in favor of looking pretty on the sidelines cheering for the “real sports”, you have made yourself and George Mason University look sexist and chauvinistic. This has not gone unnoticed.

The GMU Masonettes alumni remain ferociously dedicated to our coach and our team. Regardless of whether she is still the coach or the team is still in function, we intend to bring this issue to light within the University, Fairfax, Virginia, and the world. It is a sad day when Mason Athletics cuts a team for $14,000 debt- when the alumni have offered to pay out of pocket. With your lack of explanation, I can only assume you have an ulterior motive. A sexist itinerary that you are filtering down into your athletic organization like a poison.

TL/DR:

· Your committee’s findings are invalid because your data was biased and incomplete.

· You have taken George Mason backwards 30 years.

· Instead of shutting us up with your e-mail, you completely insulted every single one of us and made us even angrier.

· You need to provide a clear and concrete reason why the Masonettes can no longer compete nationally. You owe this to nearly 30 years worth of Masonettes who have poured their heart and soul into supporting George Mason University.

· We, the alumni, have taken it upon ourselves to create a petition which has nearly 2,000 signatures and has gained the attention of local media. I suggest reading through the comments to see how others are feeling about your decision. It has already impacted many decisions to attend Mason or even apply. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/673/810/020/

· We intend to continue to push for equality. I strongly urge you to at least try to look at this issue from our perspective. I understand you have a daughter. I am sure you would want her voice and concerns to be heard and respected. I also have a daughter. This is why I am going to continue to challenge your decision.

· One of our current Masonettes said it best. The main issue here is not that you have taken away national competition. It is that this is the final straw in 30 years of being treated like 2nd class. This decision has brought all of the mistreatment that we overlooked to the surface. While you may have had the “final say”, this discussion is far from over.

Most Sincerely,

Sarah Davis Gish

Class of 2006
 

Vurbel

Hall of Famer
The only reason why it's not considered a sport is because the national competitions don't have standardized scoring, otherwise competitive cheerleading would be pretty much the same as gymnastics.

Which is an athletic competition, as well.
 

GMUgemini

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Which is an athletic competition, as well.

Gymnastics is classified as a sport by the NCAA, cheerleading is not.

Are you arguing the semantics of a sport as in "keeps objective scoring?" So like, swimming: sport; diving: not a sport?
 

TweederGMU

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I'm interested in learning more about how many D-1 College dance teams compete at Nationals and what type of funds do these programs receive for these teams?
 
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