Game Thread: Mason (11-2) vs. vcu (10-3), Sunday, January 5th, 12:00 PM

[mkaufman1]

As much as I'm a sucker for a good infrastructure project, pointing to the practice facility/locker rooms as a recruiting boon is, I think, overselling those things. There are quite a few programs in the A10 with comparable if not better facilities. Those upgrades prevent us from falling behind, but let's realistically look around and realize that some other teams have good facilities that are at least matching but mostly exceeding us in the recruitment battle:

UMass: Good practice facility, comparable arena
vcu: Better practice facility, comparable arena
Richmond: (soon to be) better practice facility, better arena
Dayton: Comprable practice facility, better arena
URI: Getting a facility (unclear on details), better arena
SLU: Worse practice facility, better arena

So we're somewhere in the 5-6 range in the A10 in facilities if I'm not forgetting anything. Again, we made the upgrades we needed to and I think Brad has done a good job, but they're not gonna be what cracks the top four for us.

I probably didn't say it the best, but essentially its more so what Jim said. Now that Dave has infrastructure in place, they can at least judge Dave fairly. Having infrastructure doesn't mean a top 4 finish or better recruits by any stretch. My underlying point was that because of infrastructure, I can have more confidence in Dave (or anyone) that he can improve the program in various areas. Having confidence doesn't mean it is a guarantee by any stretch.

 

[GSII]

Nope, I’m with you. I think Oduro is going to be really good for Mason by the end. He’s further along than I thought he would be.

What this really means is this is the end and Oduro isn't getting any better. Where is the consistent player growth and development in the kids DP brought in? Remember all the Calixte talk? Where did his potential growth go over the summer? It's a disturbing pattern of player regression. Mar, Otis, Grayer even to a degree. I wouldn't be surprised if Kier ends up there too. Reuter saga is well documented as are DP's earlier whiffs. We scream mediocrity folks.

Is Brad going to accept mediocrity like W&M did for 17 years under Shaver?

I say get rid of DP and let Simpkins take over.

11-1 my a**. We had to come back in 2nd half's to beat more than half those shitty teams we scheduled.

 

[Five Two]

I agree with everyone who likes Oduro. Love the feel he has around the basket, and he's got a nice shooting stroke. Problem this year is he's made out of cookie dough and can't bang with A10 bigs. He'll get picked on defensively.

I too see upside in Oduro that I wasnt so sure about this summer.
I also agree that he can't bang with A10 bigs. So why do we constantly match him up man to man when he is over matched? We made no in-game adjustments on defense Sunday afternoon. (or did we and I missed it?) Maybe throw a zone at them for a possession or two change the look. It cant be worse than leaving Oduro or AJ or Greg alone 1 on 1 to get torched.

 

[GSII]

I too see upside in Oduro that I wasnt so sure about this summer.
I also agree that he can't bang with A10 bigs. So why do we constantly match him up man to man when he is over matched? We made no in-game adjustments on defense Sunday afternoon. (or did we and I missed it?) Maybe throw a zone at them for a possession or two change the look. It cant be worse than leaving Oduro or AJ or Greg alone 1 on 1 to get torched.

When Oduro was guarding MSS, no double. When Calixte guarded MSS, a double came. SMH.

 

[mkaufman1]

What this really means is this is the end and Oduro isn't getting any better. Where is the consistent player growth and development in the kids DP brought in? Remember all the Calixte talk? Where did his potential growth go over the summer? It's a disturbing pattern of player regression. Mar, Otis, Grayer even to a degree. I wouldn't be surprised if Kier ends up there too. Reuter saga is well documented as are DP's earlier whiffs. We scream mediocrity folks.

Is Brad going to accept mediocrity like W&M did for 17 years under Shaver?

I say get rid of DP and let Simpkins take over.

11-1 my a**. We had to come back in 2nd half's to beat more than half those shitty teams we scheduled.

Head up my friend. You aren’t wrong, but there’s no sense in going in circles on most of these topics again. Oduro is only a freshman. Not sure why Calixte hasn’t developed more.

 

[gmujim92]

What this really means is this is the end and Oduro isn't getting any better. Where is the consistent player growth and development in the kids DP brought in? Remember all the Calixte talk? Where did his potential growth go over the summer? It's a disturbing pattern of player regression. Mar, Otis, Grayer even to a degree. I wouldn't be surprised if Kier ends up there too. Reuter saga is well documented as are DP's earlier whiffs. We scream mediocrity folks.

Is Brad going to accept mediocrity like W&M did for 17 years under Shaver?

I say get rid of DP and let Simpkins take over.

11-1 my a**. We had to come back in 2nd half's to beat more than half those shitty teams we scheduled.

The player bears a share of the responsibility to do the work to get better.

Otis worked his a** off and maxed out what he could be. Did any of us think when he was a freshman that he’d become an all-timer at Mason? Anyone who says yes is lying.

Kier has done the same thing. He’s a warrior. Unfortunately he is hurt and you can see he has no explosiveness — either because of the foot or ankle — and a huge part of his game is driving the ball.

We need more guys like Santos-Silva who are totally committed to being great and willing to do whatever it takes to get there. The kind of improvement he has made has very little to do with coaching — it’s about will and effort.

 

[By George.]

Of those 4 things, #1 has absolutely nothing to do with Dave. We get that upgrade regardless of who is coaching and they don’t go away if he leaves.

#2 I’ll agree with he has improved the culture and players do seem to be held more accountable. However I’ll counter on a couple points, based solely on his post game comments I don’t think that Dave is holding himself properly accountable for our shortcomings. The canned statements about great practices are becoming insulting at this point. I’d at least respect him saying that he didn’t make adjustments soon enough in game or didn’t prep the team properly to put them in position to hit the ground running out of the gate (which is what we’ve seen the last two games). I’m not sure we can say we have a culture of being championship caliber when we haven’t really done anything in the A10 tournament ever. Our culture doesn’t scream championship caliber to me, but I’ll agree with you on accountable for the players.

To point number 3 I really question Dave’s talent evaluation. The Reuter debacle aside (which is well documented on these boards), I still think that Dave has missed on far more guys than he’s hit on. I think he’s slightly below league average on recruiting guards and way below league average for big men.

Agree that the classes have gotten more talented but I’m more worried that these players who come in looking great aren’t thriving in Dave’s system. It never seems like anyone has hit their full potential under Dave. Otis’ regression last year, Gonar, Calixte, JDS, Kier (is he still not fully healthy? Watching him something is clearly off). Dave’s offensive and defensive sets have never really made me think we are really trying to play to our strengths and mask our weaknesses. It seems like at some point in July we throw a dart at a board full of offenses and defenses and then decide yeah that’s the system this year.

I’d be interested to see a breakdown in average attendance by year over the last 8 years. I just don’t see any excitement around this team anymore. When he first came in folks were hopeful, now we seem to be back to apathetic at best.

Someone had to say it!

I’m getting tired of people’s fluff takes, take a stand already. People really need a 6th year to learn who DP is? Claiming we have a championship culture is almost laughable. Do our players like playing together? Sure, but absolutely nothing of the last 2 games suggests championship anything. DP has the best facilities of any coach in our history and previous coaches have recruited better with far less. Us at By George have become numb to all this and have accepted DP for who he is but the answers to Petey’s question so far have been less than convincing.

 

[sleeperpick]

The player bears a share of the responsibility to do the work to get better.

Otis worked his a** off and maxed out what he could be. Did any of us think when he was a freshman that he’d become an all-timer at Mason? Anyone who says yes is lying.

Kier has done the same thing. He’s a warrior. Unfortunately he is hurt and you can see he has no explosiveness — either because of the foot or ankle — and a huge part of his game is driving the ball.

We need more guys like Santos-Silva who are totally committed to being great and willing to do whatever it takes to get there. The kind of improvement he has made has very little to do with coaching — it’s about will and effort.

First two paragraphs are spot on. Last paragraph is crap Jim... Unless you admit Paulsen can't recruit kids who want to get better but start off at a level far above an Otis or Kier (maybe)... Santos Silva had 2 power 5 offers (one from a team you crap on BC). He was benched and his father wanted him to transfer after his freshman year because of lack of playing time (ask a vcu fan). But through his own heart and great coaching he has become a top 5 big in the A10 as a junior.

You cannot have it both ways. Either Paulsen can't recruit or he can't develop players. Or both (like I think). He most certainly cannot recruit and develop because a lot of these kids max out WAYYYY too low compared to their A10 enemies

 

[sleeperpick]

we talk far too much about the size and strength discrepancy between us and upper tier A10 teams.. so we recruit two string beans and an athletic big that needs to add 25 lbs at least. Start recruiting these dudes who look like they have hit puberty and maybe we won't continue to be outmatched physically and athletically.

Also Bones Hyland is going to give me nightmares for the next 3 years... They stole him from much better offers.

 

[gmujim92]

First two paragraphs are spot on. Last paragraph is crap Jim... Unless you admit Paulsen can't recruit kids who want to get better but start off at a level far above an Otis or Kier (maybe)... Santos Silva had 2 power 5 offers (one from a team you crap on BC). He was benched and his father wanted him to transfer after his freshman year because of lack of playing time (ask a vcu fan). But through his own heart and great coaching he has become a top 5 big in the A10 as a junior.

You cannot have it both ways. Either Paulsen can't recruit or he can't develop players. Or both (like I think). He most certainly cannot recruit and develop because a lot of these kids max out WAYYYY too low compared to their A10 enemies

Do you honestly believe we SHOULD be recruiting at the same level as vcu?

Even when we were in the CAA we didn’t recruit on their level. Since then they’ve matched our FF, gone back to the dance seven times and sunk $25M into a new practice facility.

Of course Dave isn’t recruiting guys on that level. My point was Santos-Silva is a product of discipline and hard work, not coaching, and Rhoades himself has acknowledged that.

Do we have enough guys who are willing to live in the weight room? Certainly doesn’t seem like it.

 

[By George.]

Do you honestly believe we SHOULD be recruiting at the same level as vcu?

Even when we were in the CAA we didn’t recruit on their level. Since then they’ve matched our FF, gone back to the dance seven times and sunk $25M into a new practice facility.

Of course Dave isn’t recruiting guys on that level. My point was Santos-Silva is a product of discipline and hard work, not coaching, and Rhoades himself has acknowledged that.

Do we have enough guys who are willing to live in the weight room? Certainly doesn’t seem like it.

You really think Silva’s production has nothing to do with coaching? This debate should end here.

 

[NewPatriot]

he needs to lift more weights!

give him a full year in the gmu practice facility and the system. he will develop.into a beast.

He has all the tools to become a good a10 level big.

 

[sleeperpick]

give him a full year in the gmu practice facility and the system. he will develop.into a beast.

He has all the tools to become a good a10 level big.

what system?

 

[sleeperpick]

Do you honestly believe we SHOULD be recruiting at the same level as vcu?

Even when we were in the CAA we didn’t recruit on their level. Since then they’ve matched our FF, gone back to the dance seven times and sunk $25M into a new practice facility.

Of course Dave isn’t recruiting guys on that level. My point was Santos-Silva is a product of discipline and hard work, not coaching, and Rhoades himself has acknowledged that.

Do we have enough guys who are willing to live in the weight room? Certainly doesn’t seem like it.

of course not Jim. I would just love to win a kid over an actual A10 team rather than being toe to toe with Towson for every recruit. I am super high on Malik Henry but can't say I am super inspired to recruit two more kids with high school basketball ready bodies. We need some weight room type of a dudes in this program but we recruit the same player over and over again and then don't change how we coach. It is consistently disappointing

Also the Santos Silva development certainly involves coaching. Coaching is obviously not everything... I am sure Rhoades has acknowledged that he has NOTHING to do with Santos-Silva being a successful A10 player

 

[NewPatriot]

Also, how many "big men" have really improved under DP? It's one thing if you bring in a guy and can develop him but I really can't name one big man that has improved under DP/staff. Love the kids heart and will never speak negatively about them but the way the team is constructed, it is going to be hard to compete with the big boys in the A10 and power conferences. This year we have beat the teams we should (struggled against a few) and really didn't even compete against the other ones. I know others have said it but it looks like men against boys when we play the likes of vcu, UMD, TCU.

As a fan of both schools, I can sa

Also, how many "big men" have really improved under DP? It's one thing if you bring in a guy and can develop him but I really can't name one big man that has improved under DP/staff. Love the kids heart and will never speak negatively about them but the way the team is constructed, it is going to be hard to compete with the big boys in the A10 and power conferences. This year we have beat the teams we should (struggled against a few) and really didn't even compete against the other ones. I know others have said it but it looks like men against boys when we play the likes of vcu, UMD, TCU.

As a mason/vcu fan, I can say tell you that vcu's front line isnt maryland or TCU.

The game was decided when AJ wilson got in foul trouble. It could well have gone the other direction if silva got in foul trouble.

See vcu vs. Witchita State game.

The point is opponents are successful when they get Santos-Silva in foul trouble early, take their ability to play inside-out and reduce them to a jump shooting team.

GMU needs to get MSS in early foul trouble to win in Richmond.

 

[gmujim92]

You really think Silva’s production has nothing to do with coaching? This debate should end here.

Nothing? That’s too strong.

But coaches are limited in the amount of time they can work with kids. The difference between a decent-to-good player and a great player almost always lies in the individual’s willingness to work outside team practice.

 

[Pablo]

Nothing? That’s too strong.

But coaches are limited in the amount of time they can work with kids. The difference between a decent-to-good player and a great player almost always lies in the individual’s willingness to work outside team practice.

I agree!

https://vcuathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2019-20/bios/santos-silva_marcus_69d8:

"Reshaped his physique and shed nearly 40 pounds prior to freshman season"

 

[Pablo]

Jim barely agrees with his point and that’s why he edited his post about Rhoades acknowledging that Silva’s development was based off hard work and not coaching. Coaching is close to everything, coaches set the offseason training schedule. Should players also work on their own? OF COURSE, and this should be identified in the recruitment process.....done by coaches. Stop taking responsibility away from coaches, instead put EVERYTHING on their plate.

Yes, the head coach and the strength and conditioning coach are absolutely essential for player development. But, it still requires the maximum effort on the players' part to become outstanding players.

 

[sleeperpick]

Yes, the head coach and the strength and conditioning coach are absolutely essential for player development. But, it still requires the maximum effort on the players' part to become outstanding players.

Dave must be recruiting non winners and lazy a-holes because they sure as heck aren't getting much better. must be that...(being completely facetious)

 

[gmujim92]

Dave must be recruiting non winners and lazy a-holes because they sure as heck aren't getting much better. must be that...(being completely facetious)

Well he recruited an all-state player from Minnesota who seemingly has forgotten how to play basketball and a scoring machine from Westchester NY who can’t even hit a shot in practice. I honestly don’t know what to make of that. It’s baffling.