Game Thread: Mason (11-2) vs. vcu (10-3), Sunday, January 5th, 12:00 PM

[By George.]

The guys who have made it to their senior seasons at Mason under DP have been pretty well developed.

Key sentence

 

[GMU1983]

Oduro actually has the potential to become a really good back to the basket big. That reverse layup in Silva in the first half was a thing of beauty. He just stepped out of bounds..

He is learning quick. He sets really good picks. He gets the ball on the high post and makes the correct decision every time; he understands how look over the defense, when to hand off the ball, when to keep the ball on contested hand off, find back door cutters.

He has a mid range jumper. He can receive the ball in the low post and make a reverse layup or a jump hook.

Defensively, he knows how lay his body on another big and use his leverage to push them out position.

At 6'9, 240 - that is good. Especially for guy who only been playing since 9th grade.

he needs to lift more weights!

 

[gmutom]

The guys who have made it to their senior seasons at Mason under DP have been pretty well developed — Shevon, Marquise, Jalen all thrived while playing for him and for all of his struggles Otis had his moments. Even Marko was decent.

Valid point, Jim, but it also sheds a giant spotlight on the fact that Paulsen didn't recruit any of them other than Otis, who actually regressed his senior year.

That said, and I know I might be on an island on this one, I really think Oduro has the size and skillset to be really, really good by his junior year. He's doughy and awkward at this point, but you can tell he is deceptively nimble and possesses really nice touch around the basket and as far out as 12 feet. With some time in the weight room and time to adjust to the speed of the college game — let's face it, he's been thrown to the wolves this season — I honestly believe he will prove his naysayers wrong.

 

[GSII]

So what we are saying is DP is probably best suited as an assistant. Someone who can develop talented kids and doesn't have to handle all the head coaching stuff. Seems about right. LOL.

 

[mkaufman1]

Valid point, Jim, but it also sheds a giant spotlight on the fact that Paulsen didn't recruit any of them other than Otis, who actually regressed his senior year.

That said, and I know I might be on an island on this one, I really think Oduro has the size and skillset to be really, really good by his junior year. He's doughy and awkward at this point, but you can tell he is deceptively nimble and possesses really nice touch around the basket and as far out as 12 feet. With some time in the weight room and time to adjust to the speed of the college game — let's face it, he's been thrown to the wolves this season — I honestly believe he will prove his naysayers wrong.

Nope, I’m with you. I think Oduro is going to be really good for Mason by the end. He’s further along than I thought he would be.

 

[gmujim92]

Key sentence

And I guess there are people here who think that’s all the coach’s fault.

(Hint: It’s not)

 

[Patriot Lawdog]

Whatever happened to getting the "undersized" post player who's a little bit bulkier and push people around? Don't those guys still exist? That used to be our bread and butter.

 

[gmujim92]

Valid point, Jim, but it also sheds a giant spotlight on the fact that Paulsen didn't recruit any of them other than Otis, who actually regressed his senior year.

True enough. But we’ve also had bad luck with multiple guys who should’ve had big senior seasons for us. It goes both ways IMHO.

 

[Petey Buckets]

Whatever happened to getting the "undersized" post player who's a little bit bulkier and push people around? Don't those guys still exist? That used to be our bread and butter.

That guy kicked our a** yesterday. 6'7 240 Marcus Santos-Silva is just a little too big to play linebacker and a little too short to play in the NBA.

I agree with everyone who likes Oduro. Love the feel he has around the basket, and he's got a nice shooting stroke. Problem this year is he's made out of cookie dough and can't bang with A10 bigs. He'll get picked on defensively. Can't wait to see what he does next season after a year in Handy's program.

We're all frustrated because Dave and co have been driving under the speed limit on this rebuild. It's year five of no postseason, and I don't know what next year looks like either. I don't know what evidence there is that he's the guy to get us there. Honest question for Jim and other Paulsen loyalists - what makes you think he's that guy? These arguments usually turn into why the current problems aren't his fault, but I'd love to hear the other side of it. What makes you confident Dave can get us into the tournament two out of every 5-6 years?

 

[mkaufman1]

That guy kicked our a** yesterday. 6'7 240 Marcus Santos-Silva is just a little too big to play linebacker and a little too short to play in the NBA.

I agree with everyone who likes Oduro. Love the feel he has around the basket, and he's got a nice shooting stroke. Problem this year is he's made out of cookie dough and can't bang with A10 bigs. He'll get picked on defensively. Can't wait to see what he does next season after a year in Handy's program.

We're all frustrated because Dave and co have been driving under the speed limit on this rebuild. It's year five of no postseason, and I don't know what next year looks like either. I don't know what evidence there is that he's the guy to get us there. Honest question for Jim and other Paulsen loyalists - what makes you think he's that guy? These arguments usually turn into why the current problems aren't his fault, but I'd love to hear the other side of it. What makes you confident Dave can get us into the tournament two out of every 5-6 years?

I’m neutral but content on Dave but I’ll throw a short answer on why I’m confident on Dave in general

1) infrastructure- he has shiny new facilities to get the best talent possible and have them develop
2) culture- culture of accountability and being championship caliber, it’s continued to be stressed
3) big men, point guards- obviously big men gets an incomplete at this point, but he’s always had a reliable point guard
4) recruitment improvement- each class has been better talent wise and “more ready to play”

I’m most concerned with the big man piece and shooting. But I also point to number 4 so I think these will improve hand in hand, along with number 1 helping.

 

[gmujim92]

That guy kicked our a** yesterday. 6'7 240 Marcus Santos-Silva is just a little too big to play linebacker and a little too short to play in the NBA.

I agree with everyone who likes Oduro. Love the feel he has around the basket, and he's got a nice shooting stroke. Problem this year is he's made out of cookie dough and can't bang with A10 bigs. He'll get picked on defensively. Can't wait to see what he does next season after a year in Handy's program.

We're all frustrated because Dave and co have been driving under the speed limit on this rebuild. It's year five of no postseason, and I don't know what next year looks like either. I don't know what evidence there is that he's the guy to get us there. Honest question for Jim and other Paulsen loyalists - what makes you think he's that guy? These arguments usually turn into why the current problems aren't his fault, but I'd love to hear the other side of it. What makes you confident Dave can get us into the tournament two out of every 5-6 years?

I don’t know that he is that guy, but I will say I’ve given him a pass to this point because he’s a coach with a track record of success and we had significant institutional weaknesses (infrastructure) that had to be addressed for us to realistically compete in a league like the A-10.

The facilities are much improved and the recruiting seems to be getting better, but at some point it needs to translate into wins. When is the point where we say it’s time to blow it up and start over? Good question.

 

[patriotchild]

Two sub .500 A-10 finishes in a row without a postseason is becoming my red line. Gives him wiggle room with his poor roster and injuries.

I’ll throw in a lifeline/grace period for another 2-3 seasons if he can get to the NCAA be reinstating the redline.

 

[Mason2005]

Going a little off the direction of this thread. What did you guys think about the fouls called on AJ yesterday? This wasn't a foul on MSS and it resulted in vcu ball....

https://mobile.twitter.com/IamLiemLe/status/1214342754106531841

 

[gmujim92]

Going a little off the direction of this thread. What did you guys think about the fouls called on AJ yesterday? This wasn't a foul on MSS and it resulted in vcu ball....

https://mobile.twitter.com/IamLiemLe/status/1214342754106531841

Pretty sure I screamed BULLSHIT about 30 times after that one.

 

[tblack33]

I’m neutral but content on Dave but I’ll throw a short answer on why I’m confident on Dave in general

1) infrastructure- he has shiny new facilities to get the best talent possible and have them develop
2) culture- culture of accountability and being championship caliber, it’s continued to be stressed
3) big men, point guards- obviously big men gets an incomplete at this point, but he’s always had a reliable point guard
4) recruitment improvement- each class has been better talent wise and “more ready to play”

I’m most concerned with the big man piece and shooting. But I also point to number 4 so I think these will improve hand in hand, along with number 1 helping.

Of those 4 things, #1 has absolutely nothing to do with Dave. We get that upgrade regardless of who is coaching and they don’t go away if he leaves.

#2 I’ll agree with he has improved the culture and players do seem to be held more accountable. However I’ll counter on a couple points, based solely on his post game comments I don’t think that Dave is holding himself properly accountable for our shortcomings. The canned statements about great practices are becoming insulting at this point. I’d at least respect him saying that he didn’t make adjustments soon enough in game or didn’t prep the team properly to put them in position to hit the ground running out of the gate (which is what we’ve seen the last two games). I’m not sure we can say we have a culture of being championship caliber when we haven’t really done anything in the A10 tournament ever. Our culture doesn’t scream championship caliber to me, but I’ll agree with you on accountable for the players.

To point number 3 I really question Dave’s talent evaluation. The Reuter debacle aside (which is well documented on these boards), I still think that Dave has missed on far more guys than he’s hit on. I think he’s slightly below league average on recruiting guards and way below league average for big men.

Agree that the classes have gotten more talented but I’m more worried that these players who come in looking great aren’t thriving in Dave’s system. It never seems like anyone has hit their full potential under Dave. Otis’ regression last year, Gonar, Calixte, JDS, Kier (is he still not fully healthy? Watching him something is clearly off). Dave’s offensive and defensive sets have never really made me think we are really trying to play to our strengths and mask our weaknesses. It seems like at some point in July we throw a dart at a board full of offenses and defenses and then decide yeah that’s the system this year.

I’d be interested to see a breakdown in average attendance by year over the last 8 years. I just don’t see any excitement around this team anymore. When he first came in folks were hopeful, now we seem to be back to apathetic at best.

 

[mkaufman1]

Of those 4 things, #1 has absolutely nothing to do with Dave. We get that upgrade regardless of who is coaching and they don’t go away if he leaves.

#2 I’ll agree with he has improved the culture and players do seem to be held more accountable. However I’ll counter on a couple points, based solely on his post game comments I don’t think that Dave is holding himself properly accountable for our shortcomings. The canned statements about great practices are becoming insulting at this point. I’d at least respect him saying that he didn’t make adjustments soon enough in game or didn’t prep the team properly to put them in position to hit the ground running out of the gate (which is what we’ve seen the last two games). I’m not sure we can say we have a culture of being championship caliber when we haven’t really done anything in the A10 tournament ever. Our culture doesn’t scream championship caliber to me, but I’ll agree with you on accountable for the players.

To point number 3 I really question Dave’s talent evaluation. The Reuter debacle aside (which is well documented on these boards), I still think that Dave has missed on far more guys than he’s hit on. I think he’s slightly below league average on recruiting guards and way below league average for big men.

Agree that the classes have gotten more talented but I’m more worried that these players who come in looking great aren’t thriving in Dave’s system. It never seems like anyone has hit their full potential under Dave. Otis’ regression last year, Gonar, Calixte, JDS, Kier (is he still not fully healthy? Watching him something is clearly off). Dave’s offensive and defensive sets have never really made me think we are really trying to play to our strengths and mask our weaknesses. It seems like at some point in July we throw a dart at a board full of offenses and defenses and then decide yeah that’s the system this year.

I’d be interested to see a breakdown in average attendance by year over the last 8 years. I just don’t see any excitement around this team anymore. When he first came in folks were hopeful, now we seem to be back to apathetic at best.

I respect all your points but to save us from having an essay battle that could lead to circles let’s have a discussion when I come for homecoming at brions with @sleeperpick over a beer

 

[MasonSAE4]

As much as I'm a sucker for a good infrastructure project, pointing to the practice facility/locker rooms as a recruiting boon is, I think, overselling those things. There are quite a few programs in the A10 with comparable if not better facilities. Those upgrades prevent us from falling behind, but let's realistically look around and realize that some other teams have good facilities that are at least matching but mostly exceeding us in the recruitment battle:

UMass: Good practice facility, comparable arena
vcu: Better practice facility, comparable arena
Richmond: (soon to be) better practice facility, better arena
Dayton: Comprable practice facility, better arena
URI: Getting a facility (unclear on details), better arena
SLU: Worse practice facility, better arena

So we're somewhere in the 5-6 range in the A10 in facilities if I'm not forgetting anything. Again, we made the upgrades we needed to and I think Brad has done a good job, but they're not gonna be what cracks the top four for us.

 

[gmujim92]

As much as I'm a sucker for a good infrastructure project, pointing to the practice facility/locker rooms as a recruiting boon is, I think, overselling those things. There are quite a few programs in the A10 with comparable if not better facilities. Those upgrades prevent us from falling behind, but let's realistically look around and realize that some other teams have good facilities that are at least matching but mostly exceeding us in the recruitment battle:

UMass: Good practice facility, comparable arena
vcu: Better practice facility, comparable arena
Richmond: (soon to be) better practice facility, better arena
Dayton: Comprable practice facility, better arena
URI: Getting a facility (unclear on details), better arena
SLU: Worse practice facility, better arena

So we're somewhere in the 5-6 range in the A10 in facilities if I'm not forgetting anything. Again, we made the upgrades we needed to and I think Brad has done a good job, but they're not gonna be what cracks the top four for us.

Forget falling behind, we were already 100 miles behind the top A-10 programs in infrastructure when Brad took over. Just having comparable facilities is a massive improvement.

At the very least that gives the administration an opportunity to make a fair evaluation of the staff. Brad has given Dave what he asked for when he took the job — now it is Dave’s job to deliver a winning product.

 

[Patriotsince81]

I’d be interested to see a breakdown in average attendance by year over the last 8 years. I just don’t see any excitement around this team anymore. When he first came in folks were hopeful, now we seem to be back to apathetic at best.

I'm still looking for more data. Here's what I have so far.
14-15 4,082
15-16 4,300
16-17 4,235
17-18 4,088
18-19 4,335
19-20 4,033

The numbers above reflect the number of tickets sold. Actual bodies in the seats? No way of knowing. If you take out the numbers of visiting fans numbers would be much lower. Yup, it's sad and pathetic.

 

[Patriotsince81]

I don’t think that Dave is holding himself properly accountable for our shortcomings. The canned statements about great practices are becoming insulting at this point. I’d at least respect him saying that he didn’t make adjustments soon enough in game or didn’t prep the team properly to put them in position to hit the ground running out of the gate (which is what we’ve seen the last two games). I’m not sure we can say we have a culture of being championship caliber when we haven’t really done anything in the A10 tournament ever. Our culture doesn’t scream championship caliber to me,

100% in agreement. He has made his excuses in advance. My favorite was "judge me on two years" thinking that Rueter would save the world.