Game 30: AT George Washington University, Tuesday, March 1st, 8 PM, CSN

[gmujim92]

Would like to see which Coaches won a national title sporting a forced turnover number close to Bucknells best number.

You might get a chance this season.

With a veteran team and one of the best defensive coaches in the country, Virginia has forced only 351 turnovers through its first 29 games -- an average of 12.1 per game.

According to the NCAA website, that ranks 235th out of 346 schools.

That's only 111 spots ahead of a Mason team that has a new coaching staff and three freshmen in the regular rotation.

And yet, that same Virginia team ranks 26th nationally in turnover margin, is in prime position to win the ACC regular-season title again and could wind up with another No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

The message, whether you choose to accept it or not, is this: You do not have to force a lot of turnovers if you are hard to score on and take care of the ball when you have it.

 

[Petey Buckets]

Believe it or not, Jim, Paulsen's Bucknell teams were even more extreme at not forcing steals than UVA is today. Here are Bucknell's NCAA ranks in total steals by season:

2014: 335th
2013: 337th
2012: 345th
2011: 319th
2010: 312th
2009: 315th
2008: 322nd

Steals isn't a perfect proxy for turnovers forced, but it's close (Mason is dead last in the NCAA in total steals this year, by the way, by a wide margin). UVA also has the fourth fewest turnovers in the NCAA, so they're a bit of an extreme example.

 

[GMUgemini]

You might get a chance this season.

With a veteran team and one of the best defensive coaches in the country, Virginia has forced only 351 turnovers through its first 29 games -- an average of 12.1 per game.

According to the NCAA website, that ranks 235th out of 346 schools.

That's only 111 spots ahead of a Mason team that has a new coaching staff and three freshmen in the regular rotation.

And yet, that same Virginia team ranks 26th nationally in turnover margin, is in prime position to win the ACC regular-season title again and could wind up with another No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

The message, whether you choose to accept it or not, is this: You do not have to force a lot of turnovers if you are hard to score on and take care of the ball when you have it.

I would take 12.1 turnovers a game in a second.

I don't care what kind of defense Mason runs, so long as they run it well and consistently. Right now neither one of those things is happening.

We actually ran a few traps against La Salle in the second half that worked reasonably well. I don't think Paulsen is completely opposed to doing them. But right now, our guys can't consistently be in the right positions, or can't play aggressively without fouling, and so trying to throw some high pressure traps or double teams to generate turnovers would most likely result in the team going to the line.

 

[gmujim92]

Believe it or not, Jim, Paulsen's Bucknell teams were even more extreme at not forcing steals than UVA is today. Here are Bucknell's NCAA ranks in total steals by season:

2014: 335th
2013: 337th
2012: 345th
2011: 319th
2010: 312th
2009: 315th
2008: 322nd

Steals isn't a perfect proxy for turnovers forced, but it's close (Mason is dead last in the NCAA in total steals this year, by the way, by a wide margin). UVA also has the fourth fewest turnovers in the NCAA, so they're a bit of an extreme example.

And yet, without stealing the ball or forcing many turnovers, Paulsen's Bucknell teams were consistently at or near the top of the Patriot League and challenging for NCAA berths.

His defensive philosophy is solid and has been successful in both the Patriot League, which most would agree has a lesser level of athlete overall, and a league like the ACC that sends a half-dozen guys to the NBA every year.

While GS would undoubtedly argue that the average A-10 guard is better than his Patriot League counterpart, that is negated by the reality that Paulsen also should be able to recruit a higher level guard to Mason than he did at Bucknell.

Given the composition of our roster post-Hewittpocalypse, it's grossly premature -- and frankly unfair -- to use stats from this season as a basis for the conclusion that the way Paulsen coaches defense won't work in the A-10.

 

[gmujim92]

I don't care what kind of defense Mason runs, so long as they run it well and consistently. Right now neither one of those things is happening.

And why exactly do you think this is?

Please tell me you aren't dumb enough to blame the coach.

 

[GMUgemini]

And why exactly do you think this is?

Please tell me you aren't dumb enough to blame the coach.

The players need to understand the value of preparation.

But I will also say, we aren't going to win many games in the A-10 playing as passive a defense as we played against La Salle either -- also, who would you blame for having Marko sitting out at the top of the key trying to play man-to-man defense?

 

[gmujim92]

The players need to understand the value of preparation.

But I will also say, we aren't going to win many games in the A-10 playing as passive a defense as we played against La Salle either.

So do you think Paulsen told them to play passively?

 

[GMUgemini]

So do you think Paulsen told them to play passively?

Yes.


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[JimP]

I don't see why Mason can't generate a few more turnovers down the road and play tough man to man defense. It's a bit of a cliche, but even the commentator said it last night - Mason's D doesn't make the other team uncomfortable in playing it's offense.

I have no doubt some of this will be remedied with recruiting, but have a hunch the no
TO D won't work as well in the A-10. Too many guards capable of burning a D that doesn't make them feel some unease - speed them up as they say. It'll certainly never be a trademark under Paulsen - but it's frustrating to see the team with a TO margin that is last in the A-10 by so much.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

I always like generating turnovers when you're a shitty offensive team because it leads to transition.
That's not our thing, which is fine. Better offense actually will improve our defense, as well. Scary misses from some of the horrid shots we took last night led to easy looks on the primary and secondary breaks from GW.

 

[gmutom]

My biggest concern with this current class is that there isn't an above average defender other than maybe Murrell and Grayer. Otis busts his tail, but he constantly gets burned cheating or by taller guards shooting over the top of him; Dixon appears completely overmatched in the post both from a defending and rebounding standpoint; and Abrams is a severe liability despite his height and long reach.

Teaching fundamentals will surely make them better defenders (as will getting stronger and in better shape), but you can't teach athleticism — and that's one thing this recruiting class is unfortunately missing.

 

[GSII]

So who are the coaches that have won a title with a 312 forced turnover ranking?

 

[MasonFanatic]

If you're going to criticize Paulsen for his poor turnover rates on defense, it's only fair to point out how his Bucknell teams excelled at defensive rebounding, and at not turning the ball over on offense. Paulsen's teams have not finished worse than 16th-best in defensive rebounding rate since 2011, and this season is the worst ranked offensive turnover rate of his career. In 2013 they had the 2nd-best offensive turnover rate in the country!

 

[JimP]

If you're going to criticize Paulsen for his poor turnover rates on defense, it's only fair to point out how his Bucknell teams excelled at defensive rebounding, and at not turning the ball over on offense. Paulsen's teams have not finished worse than 16th-best in defensive rebounding rate since 2011, and this season is the worst ranked offensive turnover rate of his career. In 2013 they had the 2nd-best offensive turnover rate in the country!

Good point - hopefully he can get GMU in that kind of offensive TO territory.

 

[Dawgs99]

Agree with Tom...we could really use an upgrade in the athleticism department in the next few classes. It was painfully obvious last night how bad DeAndre is on defense, he consistently gets blown by off the dribble. I hope that Boyd can come in and be a strong perimeter defender next season with his athletic ability and size. Also Temara seems like an above average athlete with all those crazy dunk videos.

 

[liem.le.3388]

My biggest concern with this current class is that there isn't an above average defender other than maybe Murrell and Grayer. Otis busts his tail, but he constantly gets burned cheating or by taller guards shooting over the top of him; Dixon appears completely overmatched in the post both from a defending and rebounding standpoint; and Abrams is a severe liability despite his height and long reach.

Teaching fundamentals will surely make them better defenders (as will getting stronger and in better shape), but you can't teach athleticism — and that's one thing this recruiting class is unfortunately missing.

Can we also please remember Paulsen had only two months to find all these recruits. I think he did a pretty good job. Our guards often have to help the post too because Hewitt never thought his guys defense.

 

[gmutom]

Can we also please remember Paulsen had only two months to find all these recruits. I think he did a pretty good job.

Come on, leim, everybody here has justifiably applauded DP for filling the roster as quickly as he did. Otis and Grayer look like steals at this point, especially so late in the process; but that doesn't change the reality that several of those players were reaches simply to get bodies in here. Nobody is to blame other than Dave's predecessor for leaving us in this situation.

The good news, as has also been pointed out many times, is that the returning players will have ample opportunities to compete for time with the new guys coming in. That will make everyone work harder, which is only going to make us better on both ends of the floor.

 

[GMUSig03]

Petey, thats what ive been trying to tell everyone. thank you for the detailed explanation.

We can't afford to be at the bottom in forced turnovers if you want to be in top four. One would think if you play man defense, you would create these but even at Bucknell, it didnt happen. Whatever reasoning or formula DP is using will need to be tweaked.

St. Josesph's is 13th in the league in opponents TO's, Davidson and GW are tied for 11th.

 

[gmujim92]

St. Josesph's is 13th in the league in opponents TO's, Davidson and GW are tied for 11th.

Stop it with your pesky facts, Joe.

 

[mkaufman1]

Stop it with your pesky facts, Joe.

someone has to do it with the robot not around