OT - Mason Annual Fundraising Spikes

[gmujim92]

Even if we had $100M to burn, I'd rather invest it in state of the art facilities and recruiting upgrades (i.e., charter flights) for basketball before we spend one dime on football.

This is from someone who LOVES football.

Given the resources, it is not impossible for our MBB program to win a national championship at its highest level of competition. Hell, we were 2 wins shy as a CAA program.

We will never, ever compete on the same level as the national football powers.

Return on investment for football is questionable if the best you'll ever do is play in a mediocre FBS league and a second-tier bowl game.

 

[MasonSAE4]

Even if we had $100M to burn, I'd rather invest it in state of the art facilities and recruiting upgrades (i.e., charter flights) for basketball before we spend one dime on football.

This is from someone who LOVES football.

Given the resources, it is not impossible for our MBB program to win a national championship at its highest level of competition. Hell, we were 2 wins shy as a CAA program.

We will never, ever compete on the same level as the national football powers.

Return on investment for football is questionable if the best you'll ever do is play in a mediocre FBS league and a second-tier bowl game.

I don't disagree the basketball program needs improvement first and foremost. I would love to see a practice facility and new arena. But I think there a lot of intangibles that football brings that people are quick to discount. I would be willing to bet that applications to the school would spike and fairly significantly. Considering a large part of how university rankings are calculated is the admissions selectivity, even a 5% boost in applications would be huge.

Be it right or wrong, Mason loses out on a lot of students who want the complete college experience and don't want to give it a chance because of its reputation for having little in the way of a social scene. Football would go a long way towards remedying that. For a kid who is a torn between us and Tech or us and JMU it would be a boost.

Again, I think a lot of money needs to go towards other programs first but there are a lot of people who hate the idea of football because we wouldn't be 'Bama which is silly. Roll Patriots.

 

[GSII]

Werent some colleges reporting a major downward tick in student attendance at their football games???

 

[MasonSAE4]

Werent some colleges reporting a major downward tick in student attendance at their football games???

I read that too. Schools were pricing students out of it. I guess the thought is "when the stadiums full, who cares who's in the seats." Some top end programs are way more expensive than an NFL game.

 

[gmujim92]

I don't disagree the basketball program needs improvement first and foremost. I would love to see a practice facility and new arena. But I think there a lot of intangibles that football brings that people are quick to discount. I would be willing to bet that applications to the school would spike and fairly significantly. Considering a large part of how university rankings are calculated is the admissions selectivity, even a 5% boost in applications would be huge.

Be it right or wrong, Mason loses out on a lot of students who want the complete college experience and don't want to give it a chance because of its reputation for having little in the way of a social scene. Football would go a long way towards remedying that. For a kid who is a torn between us and Tech or us and JMU it would be a boost.

Again, I think a lot of money needs to go towards other programs first but there are a lot of people who hate the idea of football because we wouldn't be 'Bama which is silly. Roll Patriots.

I would be for adding football if we could do it on the FCS level like Richmond and William & Mary, where you get the fall tailgating experience without the massive expense associated with building a 30,000-seat stadium and funding 170 scholarships (85 football/85 women's sports for Title IX).

Unless you have a T. Boone Pickens type benefactor or can get a cut of TV/playoff revenue as a member of a P-5 league -- and we NEVER will -- there just isn't a ROI that justifies playing FBS football.

It's a money pit that would wind up crippling our athletic department, most notably the men's basketball program.

 

[Vurbel]

stadium and physical facilities are the easy part. It is coaches salaries and scholarships that will be the tit twister. Those are recurring costs year after year.

I agree with Pikapp on something!

 

[Herndon]

They couldn't keep the same spacing on the graph to fit the page. Not uncommon as you show series data. Its a formatting thing - you put that in a chart where it impacts the slope the least.

Oh, I see what they've done. Normally I see an axis break done on the axis itself, not randomly in one spot on a line graph.

 

[MasonSAE4]

I would be for adding football if we could do it on the FCS level like Richmond and William & Mary, where you get the fall tailgating experience without the massive expense associated with building a 30,000-seat stadium and funding 170 scholarships (85 football/85 women's sports for Title IX).

Unless you have a T. Boone Pickens type benefactor or can get a cut of TV/playoff revenue as a member of a P-5 league -- and we NEVER will -- there just isn't a ROI that justifies playing FBS football.

It's a money pit that would wind up crippling our athletic department, most notably the men's basketball program.

Do people actually tailgate at those schools? Not saying you're wrong, just genuinely don't know if those schools have decently attended games.

I don't think we would ever be P5 but I think aiming to be a school like Cincinnati would be a good target. I wouldn't mind seeing us in the AAC for either sport. It's probably a slight upgrade in basketball and has some decent names that would put people in the seats at the Patriot Center. It's obviously a loooong ways off if ever but I think it'd be a good fit for Mason.

 

[Vurbel]

Is there even a big market for college football in Northern Virginia? Now if we were in the middle of nowhere like some other schools that would be one thing. Maybe it's just who I hang with, but I've never heard anybody want anything other than and Alabama/Penn State level experience. And realistically that isn't happening any time soon.

 

[Falco]

I guess schools like Miami, Georgia Tech, LSU shouldn't have football either.

 

[MasonSAE4]

Is there even a big market for college football in Northern Virginia? Now if we were in the middle of nowhere like some other schools that would be one thing. Maybe it's just who I hang with, but I've never heard anybody want anything other than and Alabama/Penn State level experience. And realistically that isn't happening any time soon.

My guess is there is a market due to the sheer population around here, but it would top out at like 15,000 a game MAX for the time being. You'd get a lot more student attendance than basketball due to the social aspect of it but if we were in some terrible conference there would definitely be some very sparsely attended games. It's all a gamble as to whether you think you can grow it. I doubt anyone thinks it would be a big deal to start with but maybe they think that coupled with a strong basketball program both could go far.

 

[TwoFootTackle]

If football becomes a reality at Mason, then I would switch my Patriot Club donation from general Patriot Club to sport specific and not give a single cent directly to the football program. Sure it's a mostly insignificant action, but that's my vote, for what it's worth.

 

[GiantKiller_Co]

Is there even a big market for college football in Northern Virginia? Now if we were in the middle of nowhere like some other schools that would be one thing. Maybe it's just who I hang with, but I've never heard anybody want anything other than and Alabama/Penn State level experience. And realistically that isn't happening any time soon.

It would be hard to compete, but seeing it from a financial point of view FCS would be the way to go. Not as big of a money pit, we can play Georgetown every year or something to attract fans to both games. Play JMU, Richmond, W&M, and occasionally get paid to play ODU or something. A school this size would benefit from it only if students and alums are involved. Even if only 5K students of the 21K undergrads come through in a tiny 15-20K stadium that's a pretty good chunk. Plus Mason historically doesn't have shitty programs; Soccer, Track, Baseball, VBB, and even Basketball have had national level success.

FBS at this point is too difficult to be competitive in because of the sheer cost. Unless P5's break off and become a new level of football or something, it wouldn't be worth it. Mason could compete with the Group of Fives (The American, C-USA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt) in recruiting and facilities if we found a sugar daddy but we could NEVER compete with the Clemsons of football dropping $55M on football facilities every couple years.

Basically, if done right FCS would be profitable if and only ALL of us (students, alums, donors, fans, comm members and admin) commit to it. Small stadium and efficient facilities = efficient spending.

I do agree we should only have this discussion AFTER all our other programs get the upgrades they desperately need to continue to prosper.

 

[GSII]

I dont see Mason going that route. They want piece of the bcs money since that is what drives profit. With that said, even a fcs level is a money pit. Is odu or chatlotte making money? Better yet, are they even breaking even? Same question to W&M, Rich, jmu etc.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

I dont see Mason going that route. They want piece of the bcs money since that is what drives profit. With that said, even a fcs level is a money pit. Is odu or chatlotte making money? Better yet, are they even breaking even? Same question to W&M, Rich, jmu etc.

ODU has hit a speed bump as even with their early success - are having a hard time making needed investments into facilities to keep up.

JMU's program has been a mastery - They started with some solid investments in what looked like a move to BCS - but then stopped the upgrades to their stadium (half finished for over a few years) and then seem to be ok with staying in CAA football and FCS. It seems they had an idea and a plan - then aborted it.

Richmond - given the size of the school and campus is probably fine with FCS and given their tuition and private status come close top breaking even.

 

[MasonSAE4]

The issue is how much debt can the institution absorb. Who assumes that debt w/o significant incoming revenue? Stadium, scholarships, Title IX, salaries, practice facilities just to start. Huge risk and a money pit if not in FBS P5.

True, but I would think that at some point when the construction boom comes to an end and Mason's campus is maxed out they will pay most of their bonds off. Considering the state pays for academic building construction/renovation at some point we'll see Mason's balance sheet much closer to even. As much as I'm biased towards football I'd say that's a ways off. But I feel like with the money in this area we could fundraise a decent amount towards facilities. And with more dorms going up I'd be kind of surprised if the balance of students didn't start skewing more towards out of state students for the money.

 

[Cedric Dempsey]

True, but I would think that at some point when the construction boom comes to an end and Mason's campus is maxed out they will pay most of their bonds off. Considering the state pays for academic building construction/renovation at some point we'll see Mason's balance sheet much closer to even. As much as I'm biased towards football I'd say that's a ways off. But I feel like with the money in this area we could fundraise a decent amount towards facilities. And with more dorms going up I'd be kind of surprised if the balance of students didn't start skewing more towards out of state students for the money.

However, the practice facility for MBB has not been realized. That need dates back to post Final Four. I would also advise any client against a model that is not capable of carrying the proposed debt load for football and basketball. Non P5 football is financially subsidized football.

 

[MasonSAE4]

However, the practice facility for MBB has not been realized. That need dates back to post Final Four. I would also advise any client against a model that is not capable of carrying the proposed debt load for football and basketball. Non P5 football is financially subsidized football.

Right, but a huge part of that falls on Hewitt being content with the RAC. While it should have been done after the final four, I'm actually happy it didn't because the plan was to tack it on to the patriot center which would have ruled out a new arena. I suspect that if Hewitt had asked for a practice facility it would either already be done or much further in the process.

 

[Pikapppatri8]

We know there are many needs but at least they are starting to be addressed in a much more aggressive way than before. No comparison.

Let's also recognize the reason for the post - we raised $98 million in a year. Pretty impressive and it opens up a lot of possibilities.


Broads, Buicks, and Buckley

 

[Cedric Dempsey]

Right, but a huge part of that falls on Hewitt being content with the RAC. While it should have been done after the final four, I'm actually happy it didn't because the plan was to tack it on to the patriot center which would have ruled out a new arena. I suspect that if Hewitt had asked for a practice facility it would either already be done or much further in the process.

You seem to have missed my point. If there has been squat done for a Final 4 program, then why does anyone think millions will be raised for FCS football? Two half assed commitments get you two half assed programs. Get the hoops fixed.