OT: Conference Realignment

[KAOriginal]

Making the A-10 worse by bringing in bottom tier teams doesn't help us in the slightest. We finished 5th twice under DP and didn't sniff the postseason because of down years in the A-10 (we also never did ourselves any favors in the OOC).

Do we get banners for those 5th place finishes? To point out our best finishes were in "down years" is pretty stellar.

We should probably not worry about future invitees and judging how they might fare in the A10 till we actually prove something ourselves.

 

[sleeperpick]

Do we get banners for those 5th place finishes? To point out our best finishes were in "down years" is pretty stellar.

We should probably not worry about future invitees and judging how they might fare in the A10 till we actually prove something ourselves.

This is true but your original point still makes 0 sense

 

[KAOriginal]

This is true but your original point still makes 0 sense

No it does. Why do we want more teams than are better than us? We have barely proven we even belong in the A10 after a decade.

But to prove your point---
Drexel has more NCAA appearances than us in the last decade.
UNCW has 2 NCAA appearances, a CIT appearance and a CBI Championship in past 8 years.
College of Charleston-- NCAA, 2 NITs and a CBI in past decade.

Seems like successful candidates.

Yes. Wichita State would be huge add....but Im sure they feel geographically comfortable where they are and more likely to go to the Big East if push came to shove.

 

[GMUgemini]

Do we get banners for those 5th place finishes? To point out our best finishes were in "down years" is pretty stellar.

We should probably not worry about future invitees and judging how they might fare in the A10 till we actually prove something ourselves.

Just saying…there were 6 teams who made postseason tournaments last season. If you keep adding trash, that number will go down.

 

[KAOriginal]

Just saying…there were 6 teams who made postseason tournaments last season. If you keep adding trash, that number will go down.

4 of those were NIT. 2nd NCAA bid was "stolen" per experts.

I think the A10 is pretty safe to be the "big conference" in the NIT even if we add "trash teams."

 

[FreeGunston12]

4 of those were NIT. 2nd NCAA bid was "stolen" per experts.

I think the A10 is pretty safe to be the "big conference" in the NIT even if we add "trash teams."

No one cares if you beat Drexel. The committee cares if you lose to Drexel. Adding a team like that is a lose, lose. Another team to split the pie with too.

No one cares if you lose to a good team. The committee cares if you beat a good team. Another team to earn tournament money to be divided among the conference.

With scheduling the way it is, I'll take another quad 1 or 2 game at the expense of a quad 4. I mean just look at this past season. We beat some of the better teams in the conference. We lost to some of the worst teams in the conference.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[mkaufman1]

Maybe the Big Ten should also look to add some of the teams they play in buy games so that they know they always have a team to finish last. If we want weaker teams in the A10, at least lets get some of the power 5 conference to add some weak teams too.

Maybe Delaware State can join the ACC.

/sarcasm

 

[TweederGMU]

I'm guessing you guys are in the "we should go back to the CAA" camp.

Nope

 

[TweederGMU]

Making the A-10 worse by bringing in bottom tier teams doesn't help us in the slightest. We finished 5th twice under DP and didn't sniff the postseason because of down years in the A-10 (we also never did ourselves any favors in the OOC).

Who gives a crap about finishing in 5th place in the A-10. In the A-10 you need to be consistently in the Top 3 to have a chance to get to the dance every year. When an outside fan thinks of the A-10 they usually know of 3-4 teams.... the teams that are consistently good in Dayton, vcu, Davidson, and I'll throw in St. Louis and St. Bonny.

We need to schedule good out of conference teams and place Top 3 in the A-10 every year to have a chance. Adding scrub schools we can consistently beat because they can't recruit or don't allocate funds or have shitty facilities (whatever reason a recruit spurns the school) is what is needed since we haven't made the dance since being in the CAA.

Once we joined the A-10 the jokes were on us cause we were the new kids and the good teams were licking their chops cause we were a team they could consistently beat. So many vcu fans talked so much shit that year saying we didn't belong in the A-10 and 10 years later them, and other schools, can seriously look at us and say the same thing and categorize us still in the Fordham, La Salle category cause we haven't done shit.

Our 5th place finishes can't even come close to what half of the A-10 has done since we have been here: vcu, Dayton, St. Louis, St. Bonny, Rhode Island, St. Joes, UR, all have been to the dance since we have been here...but not us.

But you keep enjoying our 5th place finishes and hanging fake banners

 

[GMUgemini]

Your reasoning makes zero sense, Tweeder. First, adding bad teams to beat up on won't change the top of the conference, meaning if we suck we suck and we aren't getting top 3 just because you add Drexel, Fairfield, and Siena, not to mention the fact that some of the better historic programs (UMass, URI, GW) just made big bets on new coaches, adding junk at the bottom isn't going to change anything about us.

The reason why I said we've finished 5th twice and didn't even sniff the postseason was because in 2014, when we joined, the A-10 got 6 teams into the tournament that year. An absolute high water mark, for sure, but the two years prior to us joining (when they still had Xavier, Temple, and Butler), they also had 5 in 2013, and 4 in 2012. The entire A-10 was a better conference 10 years ago.

I also don't know why you keep referring to us as La Salle and Fordham, two small schools with deep structural constraints that would prevent the kind of turnaround we could have at Mason (even when La Salle made the Sweet 16 they had no way to capitalize on it. La Salle, as an entire university, is in deep financial trouble.

 

[TweederGMU]

Your reasoning makes zero sense, Tweeder. First, adding bad teams to beat up on won't change the top of the conference, meaning if we suck we suck and we aren't getting top 3 just because you add Drexel, Fairfield, and Siena, not to mention the fact that some of the better historic programs (UMass, URI, GW) just made big bets on new coaches, adding junk at the bottom isn't going to change anything about us.

The reason why I said we've finished 5th twice and didn't even sniff the postseason was because in 2014, when we joined, the A-10 got 6 teams into the tournament that year. An absolute high water mark, for sure, but the two years prior to us joining (when they still had Xavier, Temple, and Butler), they also had 5 in 2013, and 4 in 2012. The entire A-10 was a better conference 10 years ago.

I also don't know why you keep referring to us as La Salle and Fordham, two small schools with deep structural constraints that would prevent the kind of turnaround we could have at Mason (even when La Salle made the Sweet 16 they had no way to capitalize on it. La Salle, as an entire university, is in deep financial trouble.

Sure it does. Adding a team we can consistently beat/have a better chance of beating than a Wichita State gives us a W.... if we can get to the Top 3 of the league each year we have a chance of going to the dance. Don't care if they are Drexel or St. Louis... a win in the A-10 is what we need, don't care who we get it from.

Getting 6 teams in that one year was an abnormality and does not consistently happen, nor does getting 5 teams in. Let's be real man... we are more a 3 bid league each year.

We have not come close to consistently winning and beating top tier teams in the A-10 since joining. For our record and place of finish we are considered to be in the same category as Fordham and La Salle as for records and our place of finishing every year. We are 5-8 vs. Fordham since joining. This "small school with deep structural constraints", and who is consistently thought of as the bottom feeder, has beaten us more times and knocked us out of the tournament twice.

I've talked to numerous fans from all A-10 schools and they have looked down on us for years and usually put down a W on their calendars when they see us on the schedule. Until we can get this stench off of us, and what KA was referring to is we are heading in the right direction (we think) but jury is still out. Its hard to get a perception out of fans minds until we can consistently place in the Top 3 in the A-10 and make it to the NCAA's or NIT at least in the near future and sustaining that success consistently. Don't care where we get these A-10 wins from but we need to climb the ranks.

 

[GMUgemini]

Tweeder, us beating Drexel every year also does what to Dayton, vcu, et al...? The exact same thing, yes? They aren't LOSING to those teams. It does nothing to help us break into the top 3. Nor does beating up on them add a quality win to our resume when we inevitably lose to the teams you say we can't beat in the conference tournament.

 

[TweederGMU]

Not necessarily. Hardest thing to do is go on the road in the A-10 and win. When we win on the road it gets us even closer to being at the top of the rankings. Good teams win at home, great teams win on the road.

We beat Dayton this year. We have beaten vcu some times. Its possible for these teams to beat anyone and any time in the A-10. Even shitty La Salle beat Dayton last year and year before that Fordham beat Dayton in January 2021 so don't really get your argument cause every year there are conference upsets. Anything is possible for a Drexel, a UNCW, a College of Charleston to beat a Dayton. Sure... anyone is beatable... and these new schools recruiting and rankings of caliber of players will certainly go up just like ours did, therefore, giving them an even better chance to beat the top tier teams of the A-10.

Al Davis said it best.... Just win baby!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fy8t3HYZp4

 

[KAOriginal]

In the end it really doesn't matter who gets added. As a basketball centric league, we have a limited pool of candidates for the last slot that has a "pedigree" that would be acceptable for some of you. Going beyond 16 teams makes no sense.

Loyola Chicago was one of the few left and was probably partly to satisfy St. Louis from being picked off....(rumor was likely to the Big East---better geography, good hoops, still in a mostly private catholic league, 12th team etc) Loyola was going to over 2MIL /yr to try to keep their last coach. Who knows what they could spend in general operations. Mason competing with that? LOL.

There isn't too much left that fits the A-10. Digesting the conference profiles and memberships.....removing the P5s and football oriented conferences leaves very little. And if you pay attention, even the similar and lower conferences have moved to better geographical map so they aren't sending women's softball on plane rides. BUDGETS still matter when there's no big TV contracts.

It will be interesting to see.....but I doubt we even get a 16th team for awhile.

 

[mkaufman1]

I guess the whole “how mason belongs in the a10” argument will last until Mason actually makes the ncaa or NIT. Not arguing if mason belongs, but more of what mason has brought to the table so far. There’s no rebuttal that so far Mason has done squat, because it’s the truth.

We at least have several other dead horses and low bars to bed, this one would be nice at some point to retire as well. I’m still confident and optimistic within 2-3 years (if not sooner), this will be put to bed as well.

 

[Walter]

WARNING - GRUMPY, PESSIMISTIC OLD MAN COMMENT
I am just glad to have the memories of when my Patriots were good in basketball at the highest level and actually won games in the NCAA Tournament. In five years, the P5 will break away from the other schools and we will be relegated to second class and get the same amount of coverage as FCS football playoffs get.

 

[GMUgemini]

WARNING - GRUMPY, PESSIMISTIC OLD MAN COMMENT
I am just glad to have the memories of when my Patriots were good in basketball at the highest level and actually won games in the NCAA Tournament. In five years, the P5 will break away from the other schools and we will be relegated to second class and get the same amount of coverage as FCS football playoffs get.

Yes. If the players in football and basketball get their way and the sports become professionalized, you can kiss the old NCAA tournament goodbye. 3/4 of D1 will become insolvent.

 

[jessej]

Yes. If the players in football and basketball get their way and the sports become professionalized, you can kiss the old NCAA tournament goodbye. 3/4 of D1 will become insolvent.

at least 90% of the NCAA revenue comes from the Men's Basketball Tournament TV contract. Those funds are then used to pay for other sports that dont have tv contracts or large draws m- including fencing, cross country, archery, etc.
The end of the Men's bball tournament will mean the end of many other sports.

 

[Jack Strop]

WARNING - GRUMPY, PESSIMISTIC OLD MAN COMMENT
I am just glad to have the memories of when my Patriots were good in basketball at the highest level and actually won games in the NCAA Tournament. In five years, the P5 will break away from the other schools and we will be relegated to second class and get the same amount of coverage as FCS football playoffs get.

Yes. If the players in football and basketball get their way and the sports become professionalized, you can kiss the old NCAA tournament goodbye. 3/4 of D1 will become insolvent.

at least 90% of the NCAA revenue comes from the Men's Basketball Tournament TV contract. Those funds are then used to pay for other sports that dont have tv contracts or large draws m- including fencing, cross country, archery, etc.
The end of the Men's bball tournament will mean the end of many other sports.

I hope you're wrong.

 

[Walter]

I hope I am wrong too, but …

https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2022/04/are-we-inevitably-headed-for-power-five-college-basketball-tournament-replacing-ncaas-jones.html