NIL Thread

[Patriot8]

Guess those players aren't passing him the ball. Or they will give him the ball in his most unlikely to score spots and then not be options for him so he turns it over.

Is this sarcasm? Honestly I can’t tell.

 

[GSII]

Is this sarcasm? Honestly I can’t tell.

It should be sarcasm. However, it could happen right??

 

[gmubrian]

suppose prior to NIL donor gave x to the university/basketball program
now with NIL the donor gives y to NIL and x-y to the university/basketball program

in both cases the donor gives x (and i wont get into which amounts are tax or business deductible)
but the university/basketball program recieves a lesser amount in the second scenario

That is what I described. I was trying to point out that your definition of "basketball program" is too narrow. Aren't the players part of the basketball program? If you include the players in the definition of basketball program, then the same amount is going to the program. Yes, the school gets less, but I don't see a problem with that, but the program overall gets the same amount of money in your scenario.

My additional point is that I think it will trigger even more donations, in many, if not most, cases. I am probably biased because that is the case for me. I will give the same or more to Mason, but I am also looking to do some sort of NIL deal on top of that.

Why do we as fans give/hope for big money to go to the program? One of the key reasons is to be able to attract better players. So, instead of building gold plated locker rooms and lazy rivers (what else are you going to do with 10 million dollar donations when your program already has it all like a Kentucky...) the players get to put the cash in their pocket. That will be more effective in attracting them than the over the top facilities.

 

[Walter]

This Villanova fan is claiming that Jay Wright retired because he knew VU couldn't compete in the new world of NIL. I doubt he knows why Wright retired, but I think he does make a point; NIL will make the rich richer and the non-P5 schools poorer. As historically good as VU has been and as passionate as VU fans are, they won't be able to compete with Big State U with NILs. Neither will GMU.

As Predicted, NIL killed college basketball

This is why Jay Wright is retiring. There is no way to compete against power 5 conference schools for top recruits anymore. Can all be so proud of yourselves, patting yoru selves on the back that...

www.vuhoops.com

 

[Patriot8]

This Villanova fan is claiming that Jay Wright retired because he knew VU couldn't compete in the new world of NIL. I doubt he knows why Wright retired, but I think he does make a point; NIL will make the rich richer and the non-P5 schools poorer. As historically good as VU has been and as passionate as VU fans are, they won't be able to compete with Big State U with NILs. Neither will GMU.

As Predicted, NIL killed college basketball

This is why Jay Wright is retiring. There is no way to compete against power 5 conference schools for top recruits anymore. Can all be so proud of yourselves, patting yoru selves on the back that...

www.vuhoops.com

Cam Whitmore chose Villanova over North Carolina and Illinois. Per 247, he's a top 20 player in the country who held offers from plenty of "Big State U's". Sure, there will be some schools who hold an advantage because of their massive and enthusiastic donor bases, but I still think the right fit and relationships will play the largest role in recruiting success.

 

[jessej]

That is what I described. I was trying to point out that your definition of "basketball program" is too narrow. Aren't the players part of the basketball program? If you include the players in the definition of basketball program, then the same amount is going to the program. Yes, the school gets less, but I don't see a problem with that, but the program overall gets the same amount of money in your scenario.

My additional point is that I think it will trigger even more donations, in many, if not most, cases. I am probably biased because that is the case for me. I will give the same or more to Mason, but I am also looking to do some sort of NIL deal on top of that.

Why do we as fans give/hope for big money to go to the program? One of the key reasons is to be able to attract better players. So, instead of building gold plated locker rooms and lazy rivers (what else are you going to do with 10 million dollar donations when your program already has it all like a Kentucky...) the players get to put the cash in their pocket. That will be more effective in attracting them than the over the top facilities.

i would somewhat disagree

if i give $1M to a basketball program - it is unlikely that any player sees any of that money as a direct or cash payment to him although as a player he gets indirect benefits in terms of better locker room, weight room, charter airflights to games, uniform upgrades, etc., etc.

NIL results in a direct cash payment or some other benefit directly to that player - like a car lease or $25 weekly credit at a restuarant or $1000 in gas cards, etc , etc

 

[gmubrian]

This Villanova fan is claiming that Jay Wright retired because he knew VU couldn't compete in the new world of NIL. I doubt he knows why Wright retired, but I think he does make a point; NIL will make the rich richer and the non-P5 schools poorer. As historically good as VU has been and as passionate as VU fans are, they won't be able to compete with Big State U with NILs. Neither will GMU.

As Predicted, NIL killed college basketball

This is why Jay Wright is retiring. There is no way to compete against power 5 conference schools for top recruits anymore. Can all be so proud of yourselves, patting yoru selves on the back that...

www.vuhoops.com

I disagree with this overall assessment.
First, we weren't competing with the big programs in the first place.

Second, it doesn't change the landscape from player availability. There are still 13 scholarship players allowed. It isn't like Kentucky can now pay 75 recruits to hang out on their roster. In some ways, it increases the availability if kids at a Kentucky stay in the NCAA longer instead of going to the NBA early.

Third, most of us suspect that many of the big programs were paying their players already, just under the table. Now it will just be in the open. Programs like Mason that strive to even avoid the gray areas can now pay their players something. It might only be 1, 5 or $10k, but it will help those students to be able to visit their local family on weekends (Odurro), buy gas (could have helped a former student...), eat better, etc.

We are still competing with other A10 programs and the like. If we can out NIL them, we are better off. If we can't we will be worse off. At the moment, we are doing a decent job compared to other programs at our level. Hopefully that trend is sustainable.

 

[gmubrian]

i would somewhat disagree

if i give $1M to a basketball program - it is unlikely that any player sees any of that money as a direct or cash payment to him although as a player he gets indirect benefits in terms of better locker room, weight room, charter airflights to games, uniform upgrades, etc., etc.

NIL results in a direct cash payment or some other benefit directly to that player - like a car lease or $25 weekly credit at a restuarant or $1000 in gas cards, etc , etc

That is exactly what I am saying, so I am not sure what you are disagreeing with.

 

[psyclone]

This Villanova fan is claiming that Jay Wright retired because he knew VU couldn't compete in the new world of NIL. I doubt he knows why Wright retired, but I think he does make a point; NIL will make the rich richer and the non-P5 schools poorer. As historically good as VU has been and as passionate as VU fans are, they won't be able to compete with Big State U with NILs. Neither will GMU.

As Predicted, NIL killed college basketball

This is why Jay Wright is retiring. There is no way to compete against power 5 conference schools for top recruits anymore. Can all be so proud of yourselves, patting yoru selves on the back that...

www.vuhoops.com

That same poster (PokerChris) predicted 2 weeks ago that Wright would coach another 15 years (https://www.vuhoops.com/2022/4/8/23...ights-final-career-numbers-and-where-it-ranks).

 

[Pablo]

Oscar Tshiebwe returning to Kentucky is what NIL is all about - Sports Illustrated

The Kentucky star will reportedly earn $2 million in NIL deals.

www.si.com

"So this is a win-win for college hoops as a whole and Tshiebwe in particular. He has established marketability in a place that loves its college basketball heroes. Put his face on billboards on New Circle Road in Lexington. Let him sign autographs at Keeneland Race Course. If he likes the steaks at Malone’s, have him endorse those. Pay the man for being the star Wildcat he is.

The complication in many precincts—including Kentucky—is that players are being paid for who they might become. They are being paid on speculation. They are being paid on recruiting hype as opposed to proven high-level performance. That’s not name, image and likeness; that’s pay-for-play recruiting inducement being cloaked as NIL."

 

[Masonfan3]

I disagree with this overall assessment.
First, we weren't competing with the big programs in the first place.

Second, it doesn't change the landscape from player availability. There are still 13 scholarship players allowed. It isn't like Kentucky can now pay 75 recruits to hang out on their roster. In some ways, it increases the availability if kids at a Kentucky stay in the NCAA longer instead of going to the NBA early.

Third, most of us suspect that many of the big programs were paying their players already, just under the table. Now it will just be in the open. Programs like Mason that strive to even avoid the gray areas can now pay their players something. It might only be 1, 5 or $10k, but it will help those students to be able to visit their local family on weekends (Odurro), buy gas (could have helped a former student...), eat better, etc.

We are still competing with other A10 programs and the like. If we can out NIL them, we are better off. If we can't we will be worse off. At the moment, we are doing a decent job compared to other programs at our level. Hopefully that trend is sustainable.

If you don't think that players aren't still getting paid under the table, I don't know what to tell you. Guys will go to the school that offers them the most money (not every kid but a lot of them). That is another reason you see so many kids in the portal. NIL and the transfer portal are hurting college athletics especially at the lower/mid major level. You will continue to see kids kill it their freshman year and transfer up because the Kentucky's, Duke's, UNC's of the world have alumni or companies that are willing to pony up more money to pay these kids both legally and under the table. And you are right Kentucky can't pay 75 recruits to hang out on their roster but they can pay that 13th guy more than Mason can or is willing to. Before, that 13th guy might have chosen a program like Mason because they knew they would get some PT. Now they get to choose, do I go to a mid major and get some PT and still probably not make it to the NBA, or do I go to Kentucky where I potentially could earn some PT later but also get paid more....some kids will choose the mid major but a lot won't. CKE knows this so it wouldn't surprise me if he is taking Kathy McKay on recruiting trips...

 

[HoopsAdmin]

I disagree with this overall assessment.
First, we weren't competing with the big programs in the first place.

Second, it doesn't change the landscape from player availability. There are still 13 scholarship players allowed. It isn't like Kentucky can now pay 75 recruits to hang out on their roster. In some ways, it increases the availability if kids at a Kentucky stay in the NCAA longer instead of going to the NBA early.

Third, most of us suspect that many of the big programs were paying their players already, just under the table. Now it will just be in the open. Programs like Mason that strive to even avoid the gray areas can now pay their players something. It might only be 1, 5 or $10k, but it will help those students to be able to visit their local family on weekends (Odurro), buy gas (could have helped a former student...), eat better, etc.

We are still competing with other A10 programs and the like. If we can out NIL them, we are better off. If we can't we will be worse off. At the moment, we are doing a decent job compared to other programs at our level. Hopefully that trend is sustainable.

So, basically we are all in a NIL arms race - and we ARE in competition with the big programs, not initially maybe, but later as a rising soph or junior.

KE and staff will get a player to come to Mason - but when he excels to an all-conference level, he will be approached, tempted, and tampered with each off-season until he decides to move up to a P5 school. Any conference outside of the P5 is now a farm league. I fear it will get harder and harder to protect our good players. NIL will be (or is already) a carrot for the $$ rich schools to tear top talent away from schools that can't compete.

I hope I'm wrong, because it bums me out.

 

[GMUgemini]

Oscar Tshiebwe returning to Kentucky is what NIL is all about - Sports Illustrated

The Kentucky star will reportedly earn $2 million in NIL deals.

www.si.com

"So this is a win-win for college hoops as a whole and Tshiebwe in particular. He has established marketability in a place that loves its college basketball heroes. Put his face on billboards on New Circle Road in Lexington. Let him sign autographs at Keeneland Race Course. If he likes the steaks at Malone’s, have him endorse those. Pay the man for being the star Wildcat he is.

The complication in many precincts—including Kentucky—is that players are being paid for who they might become. They are being paid on speculation. They are being paid on recruiting hype as opposed to proven high-level performance. That’s not name, image and likeness; that’s pay-for-play recruiting inducement being cloaked as NIL."

This is the problem, NIL was supposedly about individual players being able to market themselves outside of their affiliation with any particular program...have a good social media presence? You can monetize it.

What has happened is big schools are putting together NIL packages for entire rosters and using that as a recruitment advantage...not the spirit of NIL at all.

If players want to be treated like coaches, maybe we should start putting buy-out clauses in scholarship offers...mentioned this before...guarantee 4 years...buyout clause would be set at scholarship cost + years left on eligibility...so a sophomore transfers out new school would have to buyout 3 years worth of scholarship...if mid-majors wind up becoming a farm league might as well benefit from it.

Also, money "ruined" college sports about 45 years ago. MIght as well embrace it.

 

[gmubrian]

If you don't think that players aren't still getting paid under the table, I don't know what to tell you. Guys will go to the school that offers them the most money (not every kid but a lot of them). That is another reason you see so many kids in the portal. NIL and the transfer portal are hurting college athletics especially at the lower/mid major level. You will continue to see kids kill it their freshman year and transfer up because the Kentucky's, Duke's, UNC's of the world have alumni or companies that are willing to pony up more money to pay these kids both legally and under the table. And you are right Kentucky can't pay 75 recruits to hang out on their roster but they can pay that 13th guy more than Mason can or is willing to. Before, that 13th guy might have chosen a program like Mason because they knew they would get some PT. Now they get to choose, do I go to a mid major and get some PT and still probably not make it to the NBA, or do I go to Kentucky where I potentially could earn some PT later but also get paid more....some kids will choose the mid major but a lot won't. CKE knows this so it wouldn't surprise me if he is taking Kathy McKay on recruiting trips...

There is no reason to not make it public. Just call it an NIL and it is legal. No risk of a violation. It would be stupid to do it under the table still.

I hate to tell you, this was happening already with the transfer portal. The NIL adds a new dimension, but I doubt there are many kids who are willing to give up their NBA dreams to get 0 mins per game sitting on the Kentucky bench. Good kids want to play and showcase their talents, not ride the pine. It could happen, but, I think it will the rarity.

 

[gmubrian]

So, basically we are all in a NIL arms race - and we ARE in competition with the big programs, not initially maybe, but later as a rising soph or junior.

KE and staff will get a player to come to Mason - but when he excels to an all-conference level, he will be approached, tempted, and tampered with each off-season until he decides to move up to a P5 school. Any conference outside of the P5 is now a farm league. I fear it will get harder and harder to protect our good players. NIL will be (or is already) a carrot for the $$ rich schools to tear top talent away from schools that can't compete.

I hope I'm wrong, because it bums me out.

This was already happening with transfers, the one time transfer rule and the portal. It is going both directions. We already poached players from higher level schools that weren't getting the playing time. the Kentucky's of the world can only lock up 13 players to a scholarship, the same number before all of this started. Nothing changes in that equation.

We are in the same arms race we were before (against similar programs) but now the kids get some of the rewards and don't have to wait until they go to the NBA/Europe to get a paid for their efforts.

This has already had a positive impact in that Kentucky kid is going to stay, maybe he gets his degree. Before this his choice was stay in college to get my degree, risk a career ending injury and never get the big pay day or leave school to go to the NBA. This allows him to stay, finish his degree, and then he has that to fall back on if pro career doesn't pan out for whatever reason.

 

[Masonfan3]

There is no reason to not make it public. Just call it an NIL and it is legal. No risk of a violation. It would be stupid to do it under the table still.

I hate to tell you, this was happening already with the transfer portal. The NIL adds a new dimension, but I doubt there are many kids who are willing to give up their NBA dreams to get 0 mins per game sitting on the Kentucky bench. Good kids want to play and showcase their talents, not ride the pine. It could happen, but, I think it will the rarity.

Shaeden Sharpe played 0 minutes this year at Kentucky and is going to be a top 5 pick....

 

[Masonfan3]

This was already happening with transfers, the one time transfer rule and the portal. It is going both directions. We already poached players from higher level schools that weren't getting the playing time. the Kentucky's of the world can only lock up 13 players to a scholarship, the same number before all of this started. Nothing changes in that equation.

We are in the same arms race we were before (against similar programs) but now the kids get some of the rewards and don't have to wait until they go to the NBA/Europe to get a paid for their efforts.

This has already had a positive impact in that Kentucky kid is going to stay, maybe he gets his degree. Before this his choice was stay in college to get my degree, risk a career ending injury and never get the big pay day or leave school to go to the NBA. This allows him to stay, finish his degree, and then he has that to fall back on if pro career doesn't pan out for whatever reason.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that the portal is going both directions. However, the guys we poached from higher programs all had a personal relationship with CKE. We have yet to land a guy (from a higher program) that wasn't already coached by CKE. And yes, maybe it is helping the Kentucky kid but I can list 100 ways it has hurt mid major programs. Do you think Yuri Collins would have hit the portal if he didn't' have to sit out or if NIL wasn't around..nope. Some of these major conference programs are in the ears of mid major stars throughout the season trying to "recruit them" for the next season. How is that good for college basketball?

 

[GSII]

If it's about name image and likeness, doesn't that take a year to develop? Couldn't they say NIL deals are after fr or soph years??

 

[gmubrian]

Shaeden Sharpe played 0 minutes this year at Kentucky and is going to be a top 5 pick....

That is a little misleading as he enrolled mid year (similar to Fernandez for us). It isn't like he gave up a year of eligibility for the NIL payday. Second, were we in contention for him if there was no NIL, no way! Even if I were to ignore those facts, he is the rarity that I said it would be: out of the approximately 4300 scholarship D1 players, how many fit in that scenario?

 

[GMUgemini]

If it's about name image and likeness, doesn't that take a year to develop? Couldn't they say NIL deals are after fr or soph years??

It probably should have been restricted to non-athletic related monetization. Have a badass Twitch account? A podcast? Do you do covers on YouTube?

What’s happening now is basically unregulated endorsement deals based on university affiliation, which is the opposite of what it was supposed to be.