Mason beats Shockers!!!

[Pablo]

Sports programs per school's website:

Dayton - 17
Duquesne - 15
Fordham - 20
Mason - 20
GW - 24
LaSalle - 20
UMass - 19
Rhode Island - 16
Richmond - 16
St. Bonaventure - 14
St. Joseph's - 18
St. Louis - 16
vcu - 15

Davidson - 19

 

[GMUgemini]

GW with 24 is surprising.

The RAC has become a fantastic facility, the same with the Aquatic Center. The Field House renovation is a much needed and important one and the Patriot Center needs a new roof. After that, maybe the school can look at the baseball and soccer stadiums again.

Maybe a full-time basketball practice facility will help us recruit, maybe not, but it's not going to make us a better team.

 

[Pablo]

They also pack 90k plus every home football game and get 25 million plus per season from the Big 10s television deal. I also know that wrestling and volleyball have decent followings as well and probably pay for themselves.

I'm not quite sure it's a good comparison. I'd say we should probably be more like a vcu or an Xavier who both offer fewer sports than Mason and put more of their athletics budget into basketball.

I referenced Penn State because Five Two discussed limited funding for sports, even at the top of the BCS. vcu and Xavier have 15 and 16 sports programs, respectively, compared to Mason's 20 programs.

 

[A.-Siegfried]

GW with 24 is surprising.

The RAC has become a fantastic facility, the same with the Aquatic Center. The Field House renovation is a much needed and important one and the Patriot Center needs a new roof. After that, maybe the school can look at the baseball and soccer stadiums again.

Maybe a full-time basketball practice facility will help us recruit, maybe not, but it's not going to make us a better team.

I still question the viability of spending millions upon millions of dollars for a facility that will benefit less than 30 students per year (as far as use). A dedicated basketball practice facility that is solely for men's/women's basketball seems to be overkill for a university at our level/funding.

certainly academic services, training, etc should all be brought under the same building if this were to happen, but unless the university is going to allow AAU tournaments and other outside groups to use the facility, why would Mason spend those millions of dollars on a facility for 13 men's players and 15 women's? Doesn't seem to be a good ROI to me.

There is nothing wrong with the Patriot Center and the RAC is quality as well. They just need to have better control over the RAC.

 

[gmubrian]

I still question the viability of spending millions upon millions of dollars ... that will benefit less than 30 students per year

If that is your logic, you might as well shut down the basketball program and all sports for that matter.

As five-two has stated repeatedly, it makes zero sense to have all these programs at Mason when it is not required by the NCAA. If your goal is charity, you could spend much less money and get the same outcome. The only other real reason to do it is for revenue (actual or marketing). The only two that get you much, if anything in those regards, are basketball and football.

As far as a basketball practice facility, while it will it might not make the players significantly better, there is the chance it will entice better players to come. And since the only logical argument that there is even a glimmer of hope for Hewitt is that he lands some stellar recruits-not having the practice facility could be a bigger detriment than some had previously calculated. If we end up having him for many years to come, which is not out of the realm of possibilities, it could end up being very significant....

Now that is not an argument for a practice facility. I'd much rather have a new coach than a new practice facility if there was a choice.

 

[Pablo]

If that is your logic, you might as well shut down the basketball program and all sports for that matter.

As five-two has stated repeatedly, it makes zero sense to have all these programs at Mason when it is not required by the NCAA. If your goal is charity, you could spend much less money and get the same outcome. The only other real reason to do it is for revenue (actual or marketing). The only two that get you much, if anything in those regards, are basketball and football.

As far as a basketball practice facility, while it will it might not make the players significantly better, there is the chance it will entice better players to come. And since the only logical argument that there is even a glimmer of hope for Hewitt is that he lands some stellar recruits-not having the practice facility could be a bigger detriment than some had previously calculated. If we end up having him for many years to come, which is not out of the realm of possibilities, it could end up being very significant....

Now that is not an argument for a practice facility. I'd much rather have a new coach than a new practice facility if there was a choice.

Brian,

Which sports would you recommend that Mason eliminate? BTW, Coach Hewitt indicated that he's satisfied with the Patriot Center and the RAC as practice facilities - see http://www.gomason.com/ViewArticle....5200&ATCLID=205689762&SPID=80389&SPSID=606519.

 

[gmubrian]

Brian,
What sports would you recommend that Mason eliminate?

Simple, I'd eliminate the most expensive ones to operate. Tell me which ones those are and those are the ones that would go.

BTW, Coach Hewitt indicated that he's satisfied with the Patriot Center and the RAC as practice facilities - see http://www.gomason.com/ViewArticle....5200&ATCLID=205689762&SPID=80389&SPSID=606519.

I am well aware of that. Based on his comments in press conferences, he is also satisfied with his coaching this year, as well. If you read my comment it was not for Hewitt, it was for the potential recruit that it might convince to come to Mason and the fact that 5 star recruits are our only hope while Hewitt is coach.

 

[Pablo]

Simple, I'd eliminate the most expensive ones to operate. Tell me which ones those are and those are the ones that would go.


I am well aware of that. Based on his comments in press conferences, he is also satisfied with his coaching this year, as well. If you read my comment it was not for Hewitt, it was for the potential recruit that it might convince to come to Mason and the fact that 5 star recruits are our only hope while Hewitt is coach.

So, you don't believe that the RAC would impress potential recruits?

 

[gmujim92]

I still question the viability of spending millions upon millions of dollars for a facility that will benefit less than 30 students per year (as far as use). A dedicated basketball practice facility that is solely for men's/women's basketball seems to be overkill for a university at our level/funding.

certainly academic services, training, etc should all be brought under the same building if this were to happen, but unless the university is going to allow AAU tournaments and other outside groups to use the facility, why would Mason spend those millions of dollars on a facility for 13 men's players and 15 women's? Doesn't seem to be a good ROI to me.

There is nothing wrong with the Patriot Center and the RAC is quality as well. They just need to have better control over the RAC.

Having a dedicated practice facility for basketball may seem like a ridiculous luxury, but it's not any more -- it's the cost of doing business if you want to be able to recruit well enough to consistently make the NCAA tournament.

Many, many other schools have one. The fact that we don't puts our coaches at a disadvantage when attempting to recruit elite-level teenagers who are easily swayed by stuff like facilities and other amenities.

You may not like it, but it's the reality of the era in which we live. Once again, our leaders need to decide whether they really want to have a program capable of winning on the A-10 level -- if they do, they need to commit the money to do so.

 

[gmujim92]

So, you don't believe that the RAC would impress potential recruits?

Not if they're also being recruited by pretty much anyone in the Power-6 conferences.

Even Va. Tech, which has an atrocious basketball program, built an absolute palace of a practice facility for its men's and women's teams.

We have to be able to beat out an ACC bottom-feeder for players, or we're never going to win big in the A-10. Unlike the CAA, the level of talent in this league is too deep and too good to get by doing things on the cheap.

 

[gmubrian]

So, you don't believe that the RAC would impress potential recruits?

Ok, I'll play the same game you are playing. So you don't believe a dedicated practice facility would impress potential recruits even more than the RAC?

I am not arguing hard for the PF, I am just saying that combined with the deficiencies of Hewitt as a coach, it emphasizes the need for recruiting tools even more so.

And, which sports do you recommend that Mason eliminate? Perhaps, you agree with the sports that Duquesne eliminated - see http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=4858124.

If those are those are the ones that Mason would save the most money by shutting down, then yes, those would be the ones I would shut down. You have to factor in revenue, if any, and donations as well. So, if you can answer which programs are the most expensive when you factor in all revenue, then, that will be my answer for which ones to shut down.

 

[Pablo]

Simple, I'd eliminate the most expensive ones to operate. Tell me which ones those are and those are the ones that would go.

Well, I would assume that this would include baseball.

 

[gmubrian]

Well, I would assume that this would include baseball.

Then it is gone.

 

[Pablo]

Unlike the CAA, the level of talent in this league is too deep and too good to get by doing things on the cheap.

How many A10 schools have a practice facility superior to the RAC?

 

[MasonFanatic]

If Mason had a better baseball facility and lights (to allow late afternoon or evening games that would fit my schedule better), I would attend regularly. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[TweederGMU]

Man, I used to go to baseball camp every year at U of R. Got best hitter 2 years in a row at Ronnie Atkins baseball camp. Met Sean Casey and shagges some groundballs from him, really nice guy and was a beast of a hitter. Their baseball field was very nice, now I go back and look at it and its still the same... but beautiful layout and nicely maintained. The brick foundations are a handsome touch. Ahhh, those were the days.

Ok, enough of the stroll down memory lane. I hear everyone's opinions on a new and better baseball field and agree that it could be better. But you all are missing a huge point in comparing our baseball field with the likes of others in Virginia and in our conference and you all are forgetting a major key point - the reality is that we are a very young University and institution and don't have the financial backing as some of these institutions have been around a whole of a hell lot longer than us.

Yes, we all want bigger and better things for our beloved alma mater but we can 't necessarily have the greatest facilities in the shortest amount of time. We have to face the facts, and the facts are we are still a very young and up and coming University and our large donors are not necessarily there. If they are, Basketball is the first sport they donate to since that is our most highly visible sport. Remember, funding is not always a huge priority for our new kid on the block asses. Its pretty amazing how Johnson and Merten and other past presidents and AD's who fought long and hard with the State of VA to try and get us as much money as possible for us to spend on the luxuries of our sports programs. So be thankful we even have 20 sports teams representing our school and that we have made it to a Final Four and that we have a National Championship in Women's Soccer. Have you seen our swimming and diving center.... it is straight silly! The best in the entire state of VA.

You all seem to forget that we have done a lot in sports: winning championships, having top of the line sports facilities, etc., in a very short amount of time. William and Mary has been around for a VERY long time and has a ton of wealthy donors... but look at their sports facilities and teams... they are nothing special. I'll take the RAC and Patriot Center over William and Mary's buildings all day. Virginia Tech's baseball field is not that much better than ours to be honest, and look at all their top of the line facilities and how long they have been around.

So what can we all do besides bitch and moan about how our baseball field is not up to par with Omaha. Its serviceable and that is all that matters right now. GMU is obviously more concerned about getting our Academics up and global outreach than to worry about a baseball field and an aging AD who doesn't give a crap anymore. Until we get a new, young, HUNGRY AD in here with some ideas and strategies for fundraising and nabbing these large donors around our area then we will have to accept our baseball field and the Patriot Center the way it is.... because face it fellas..... the lipstick on these pigs is all they are getting. No makeovers, no new bodies or structures, but only LIPSTICK.

We can complain about our facilities on a message board all we want, until we have the funds and donors to actually do something then we are all stuck with what we have. Learn to accept and move on.

 

[A.-Siegfried]

Ok, I'll play the same game you are playing. So you don't believe a dedicated practice facility would impress potential recruits even more than the RAC?

I am not arguing hard for the PF, I am just saying that combined with the deficiencies of Hewitt as a coach, it emphasizes the need for recruiting tools even more so.

If those are those are the ones that Mason would save the most money by shutting down, then yes, those would be the ones I would shut down. You have to factor in revenue, if any, and donations as well. So, if you can answer which programs are the most expensive when you factor in all revenue, then, that will be my answer for which ones to shut down.

I'm of the belief, unless you can raise the funds and build a facility in under 24 months starting NOW, that Hewitt will not be the coach if/when a practice facility becomes a reality, so whomever the coach is doesn't really play into the equation in my opinion.

St Bonaventure won the A-10 2 years ago. Richmond won it prior to that (and prior to their Robbins Center make over). Go back almost 10 years and GW won it twice. Do they have some big, shiny practice facility?

We aren't in a BCS conference. There is absolutely no reason we can't win, and win on the regular, with what we have facility-wise. I understand the idea of "sunk costs" across all sports, especially the ones that make zero money anyway. I'm of the opinion if Mason were to re-do it's baseball stadium, they should try to get the VHSL state finals at the facility. Or at least the regional tournaments. They should try to get as many AAU baseball tournaments there as well. Anything to make more money. I hate the fact the Siegel Center has become the site of the basketball state tournament. Mason should have gone after it. At least for one week the Mason Inn would have been put to good use.

 

[gmujim92]

How many A10 schools have a practice facility superior to the RAC?

Saint Joe's and Dayton have the best current basketball practice facilities -- for now.

UMass is building one that is expected to be finished in fall 2014. The price tag is $28.5 million ... gonna be spectacular.

vcu hasn't broken ground on its facility yet, but it has raised upwards of $15 million in private money -- including multiple 7-figure donations from local companies. It will be up and running within the next couple years.

Those are 4 teams we'll likely have to beat in any given year to win the A-10.

As for A-10 schools that don't currently have separate practice facilities...

Richmond is expected to move on turning an old gymnasium on campus into a practice facility, now that it has finished up a nearly $20 million renovation of the Robins Center.

And Saint Louis has dedicated practice space inside the Chaifetz Arena, which is the most spectacular basketball facility in the A-10 by a country mile -- think ODU's Constant Center, but on both steroids and HGH.

So yeah, you can find exceptions like a St. Bona that jump up and win the A-10 with less-than-impressive facilities, but I'm not sure we're gonna want to pattern our program after a small, private school in far upstate New York that recruits heavily in Canada.

Not gonna win any head-to-head recruiting battles with top programs unless you have at least some of the bells and whistles -- and those are the types of kids we need to sign to be consistently competitive in the A-10.

We're not in Kansas anymote, Toto.

 

[GMUgemini]

That didn't answer his question, Jim. And I think the price tag on the RAC was 25 million.

So should we spend another 30 to have three practice facilities on campus and three gyms just to try to out recruit Virginia Tech?

 

[Pablo]

Saint Joe's and Dayton have the best current basketball practice facilities -- for now.

Why, because they are totally dedicated to basketball? What criteria did you use in comparing St. Joseph's practice facility (20,000 square feet) to the RAC (120,000 square feet)?