Game 21: #18 Virginia Commonwealth University, Wednesday, February 4th, 7 PM, CBS SN

[Vurbel]

Clearly some of the players are boneheads.

Problem is, when you're the guy that brought in guys like Copes and Okoloji, you're making things a lot worse.

Oh, and regression. A lot of it.

Why does this have to be a players vs. coach argument--I never got that. Clearly it is both and always has been; difference is by year four you could (and should have) your vets be smarter and you should have brought guys in who "get it."

But at the end of the day, it falls on the coach. Right or wrong, he is responsible for their teaching. That's not to say others should be held accountable, though.

 

[Patriot Lawdog]

I love Lamar, but that's coming from a guy who had some pretty damn good coaches both at Mason and at Oxon Hill. Same arguments you heard about Sherrod and Bryon "not getting it". Just not buying it anymore.

 

[wijg]

Yeah, as much as I love Lamar. He obviously got it as a player, but I am not sure he gets it from a coaching perspective. As an example, it was another play where we switched on a screen and Corey was left guarding the center, and sure enough, easy dunk. I asked him about that after the game and he tried to explain to me why it is good to switch on every screen. Didn't make sense to me then, still doesn't. I'd like someone to explain that in simple terms so that I can understand why it is a good idea.

And to reply to my own post...

I wanted to clarify something. Lamar was likely the great player he is because he took responsibility for everything he did and worked hard at being the best he could be. That is what every player should do, that is what every coach should do. As the coach, you can't blame it on the players. You are their teacher. Teach them.

 

[sigmanorm]

Lamar sees them in practice and I am sure also doesn't know why they kids can bring that to the court in games. It is everyone...from the 1st to last seat on the bench. They all need to improve

 

[Vurbel]

Lamar sees them in practice and I am sure also doesn't know why they kids can bring that to the court in games. It is everyone...from the 1st to last seat on the bench. They all need to improve

Michael Rudy has been good this year.

 

[GMUSig03]

For the people that want to put more blame on the players (and they certainly deserve some), I think you are underestimating the impact of being in this system/environment of woeful mediocrity can have on them. Players under Larrannaga knew that if they worked hard and bought into the system, there would be a reward. There was an incentive, and thus they were motivated.

I think the players on this team are of the mindset "what's the point?" They have no confidence in Hewitt or the staff, their teammates, or themselves. Hewitt created that environment.

Of course some players are effected more than others, Corey is having his best (and maybe only good) year, likely thanks largely due to his heart, energy level, and competitive spirit.

Just try to put yourselves in the players shoes, they are the ones living in this program, we only talk about it during down time at work and spend 2-4 hours maximum a week watching. And yet, look at the effect it has had on the fans, imagine if we were living it.

 

[KAOriginal]

To me......an organization's atmosphere can be the most influential aspect.....

So while players can be blamed of their own minute failures, they cannot ALL be that dumb or blamed for the overall failure.

That is the coach.

If he cant look at his players, evaluate all their strengths and weaknesses, play those who respond appropriately ( cause I know the last coach would sit your a** till you could) and develop a scheme for them, and alternatives based on the other team....then all hope is lost.

If he cant during the latter half of the vcu game make any of his players stop shooting 3s (that we're not good at) and feed the ball in the post (where we had some height advantage)..then he's the idiot.

But I think, again, as has been stated over and over, he's too smart for his own good.

It's like Pete Carroll throwing on the 1 yard line, except our coach does it game in and game out,.

 

[Pablo]

I think the players on this team are of the mindset "what's the point?" They have no confidence in Hewitt or the staff, their teammates, or themselves. Hewitt created that environment.

I respectfully disagree!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9H9pBUIAAEDRyp.jpg:large

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

I love Lamar, but that's coming from a guy who had some pretty damn good coaches both at Mason and at Oxon Hill. Same arguments you heard about Sherrod and Bryon "not getting it". Just not buying it anymore.

I think they got it, I just know Wright was not a good defender and Allen was good for 1-2 absolutely crushing momentum-swingers per game.

 

[KAOriginal]

I think they got it, I just know Wright was not a good defender and Allen was good for 1-2 absolutely crushing momentum-swingers per game.

Exactly. Know your players, know what they can generally do and push them appropriately.

Like not putting in a bad defender, who cant score or shoot free throws into the game late trying to hold a lead....

 

[GMUgemini]

It seems to me it's not the systems problem, but the implementation of it.

The only player on the roster who is suitable for a 4 out 1 in offense is Thompson (with the possible exception of Jackson, but he's inexperienced and prone to freshman lapses right now). We should be running a double post offense and using our advantage with Jenkins and Thompson and pounding it inside all game long, but we don't.

Wijg, the reason to switch on all screens is to apply constant high ball pressure on the ballhandler and prevent him from turning the corner (Miami actually used this masterfully a few years ago during L's sweet 16 campaign so it can and does work). The problem is it requires proper rotations and a backcourt-frontcourt combo that can negate the negatives. We don't have that. We can't prevent anyone from turning the corner or prevent the over the top entry pass even if we do.

The defense, to me, seems to be a bit better this year, but the turnovers and horrible shooting ruin our defensive effort.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

Exactly. Know your players, know what they can generally do and push them appropriately.

Like not putting in a bad defender, who cant score or shoot free throws into the game late trying to hold a lead....

Yup. Plus, My argument early was, don't change whatever your system is to fit L's players too much. That would only retard the development of the guys that will be here now.

Fine. But now these are pretty much your players and the system looks horrible, with a deficient backcourt (held together only by an L holdover, BTW) and redundant recruiting at the four spot.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

Some I blame Hewitt for, some I don't. I blame him for a recruiting logjam at the four, and for doing something so outright stupid as to start Marko at the three in a 4 out, 1 in system. Something like PH missing open shots...well, what are you going to do?

A perfect example of the present situation:

One time last year right behind the bench before another soul-crushing late game loss, I heard Marko specifically tell Okoloji not to foul.

Well Okoloji went right out and promptly fouled the guy after play resumed.

All of this is on Hewitt. Why?

Okoloji was/is a bonehead, but we shouldn't have to rely on another player to tell Okoloji as such. The assistants should be screaming this if necessary, and of course Hewitt. But I heard NO INSTRUCTION to that effect.Hewitt brought this bonehead AO in at the expense of bringing in a freshman two years prior, that would be in theory right now developed and helping the team (preferably in the backcourt.)

There are countless other examples just like that. Clearly some kids are clowns, but Hewitt brought 90% of them in now and they are not being instructed properly, at least during games.

I do know as fact there are countless practice situations where Hewitt tells these teams things till he is blue in the face, and they don't listen. But they're his kids. He brought them in. Eventually if they don't listen to him ON the court, you think if he stayed this would be the last Copes-type we get in here OFF the court? Of course not.

Program disaster.

 

[CHRISTOPHER JAMES JOLLAY]

It seems to me it's not the systems problem, but the implementation of it.

The only player on the roster who is suitable for a 4 out 1 in offense is Thompson (with the possible exception of Jackson, but he's inexperienced and prone to freshman lapses right now). We should be running a double post offense and using our advantage with Jenkins and Thompson and pounding it inside all game long, but we don't.

Wijg, the reason to switch on all screens is to apply constant high ball pressure on the ballhandler and prevent him from turning the corner.

I can't agree with this enough. I'm a Wisconsin guy and despite being a depressed Packers fan, I watch Bucks games most nights with the NBA package.

Jason Kidd has an injury-depleted (Jabari Parker, gone) roster and Larry Sanders isn't playing because he's insane team at 26-22 after winning 15 games last year. His defensive system is similar to Hewitt's, but it succeeds generally because they PUT PRESSURE ON THE BALL. And get in passing lanes.

We do none of that, generally.

The ludicrous 4 in, 1 out I already covered. Be great if we had Edwards or Moore plus three off guards/wings to play alongside Thompson in it. (although I love Jackson, he's just young.)

 

[GSII]

So what we are all saying is, its better to lose while proving a point(s) in respect to Defensive effort, trust, toughness, focus etc, rather than let mediocrity settle in? Clearly we lose trying to win regardless, while the latter settled in years ago. Thats on the staff.

 

[wijg]

Wijg, the reason to switch on all screens is to apply constant high ball pressure on the ballhandler and prevent him from turning the corner (Miami actually used this masterfully a few years ago during L's sweet 16 campaign so it can and does work). The problem is it requires proper rotations and a backcourt-frontcourt combo that can negate the negatives. We don't have that. We can't prevent anyone from turning the corner or prevent the over the top entry pass even if we do.

What seems ironic, that sounds like a perfect defense against a 4 out 1 in offense.

 

[polepino]

Yes, but, if you are a jerk and still have a job, it means you are good at it.

Goes both ways, you can still be nice and have a job, and be good at it. The issue with most people is they either swing too jerk or too nice, both forgetting about the middle ground, which is usually the good employee, who is both competent and firm yet doesn't make you resent them after they 'dress you down'.

 

[gmujim92]

Without Graham and Weber, vcu is an average team.

Just thought I'd bring this back up and pat myself on the back.

Today's loss to Dayton makes Feces U 4-4 since Weber's injury and 5-5 in its last 10 games.

Despite what their dumbass fans might think, that's about as average as one can get.

 

[gmutom]

Despite what their dumbass fans might think, that's about as average as one can get.

Question: Based on expectations coming into the season, will vcu fans or Mason fans be more disappointed at the end of the season?

I know some people here are reading challenged, so please note that the question is not which program would you rather be. That would be a dumb question and an easy answer. It's also not a question of which coach is better. Again, dumb and easy.

But given that most of us came into this season knowing we'd be as bad as we are, I would maintain that vcu fans set the bar so high that they only place they can go — especially given the loss of Weber — is way down.

 

[KAOriginal]

On their boards, there's a few fans giving the line of thought that "being in the national spotlight" is too much on the young guys and that by dropping out for the rankings for a bit will only help them.

No. It's just that you are young and mediocre without your stars. Still good enough to beat alot of teams, but you are now NOT elite.