Court ruling - 2 time transfer eligibility

[Patriot8]

Not an attorney by any means, but those I follow on social seem convinced that the only way for the NCAA to get around antitrust issues is to make the players employees of their respective schools and then collectively bargain their labor contracts.

That conceivably could enable programs to offer everything from 1- to 4-year guaranteed deals with increasing salaries. Then both sides are locked in under the mutually agreed terms — no more unlimited transfers, but also no more running players off for poor performance.

Interesting times, for sure.

Employees can be fired. You can still run a kid off, you’ll just have to pay him his guarantee.

 

[gmujim92]

Employees can be fired. You can still run a kid off, you’ll just have to pay him his guarantee.

Hadn’t thought of that. Great point.

 

[GMUgemini]

Employees can be fired. You can still run a kid off, you’ll just have to pay him his guarantee.

Not an attorney by any means, but those I follow on social seem convinced that the only way for the NCAA to get around antitrust issues is to make the players employees of their respective schools and then collectively bargain their labor contracts.

That conceivably could enable programs to offer everything from 1- to 4-year guaranteed deals with increasing salaries. Then both sides are locked in under the mutually agreed terms — no more unlimited transfers, but also no more running players off for poor performance.

Interesting times, for sure.

You could be right, but being a developmental league at that point I doubt they give most multi-year contracts. Most will be year-to-year. If you look at Europe, for instance, those guys bounce around teams almost yearly (sometimes multiple teams in a year) as they clear rosters almost every offseason. I have no idea what they’re going to do if they turn college athletes into professionals, but its a Pandora’s box I hope the athletes are ready to open.

 

[Jack Strop]

You could be right, but being a developmental league at that point I doubt they give most multi-year contracts. Most will be year-to-year. If you look at Europe, for instance, those guys bounce around teams almost yearly (sometimes multiple teams in a year) as they clear rosters almost every offseason. I have no idea what they’re going to do if they turn college athletes into professionals, but its a Pandora’s box I hope the athletes are ready to open.

I don't think the NCAA will lose its anti-trust exemption to accommodate paying college athletes in a collective bargaining arrangement. It's untenable.

One has to realize that such an "employment" system if actualized would apply to ALL college athletes in NCAA sports. For many schools that would mean either killing their athletic programs overall or making the general cost of a college education rise substantially (who is going to gleefully pay for it???).

Plus, what would it do to Title IX? If athletes enter an employment-at-will organization then the employer could hire anyone it wants. Suddenly, player "salaries" are matched with revenue production potential. Face it, men's athletics are the typical bread-winners that subsidize their women's counter parts (even all non-revenue sports—men's or women's for that matter). It's a killer. For example, most women's sports on most campuses don't provide anything close to sustaining income—therefore, bye-bye women's sports. If the NCAA loses it's anti-trust exemption then it becomes emasculated. It will no longer be able to make and enforce rules—Title IX included.

One could say that Title IX can survive under a collective bargaining agreement. However, I don't think any university wants to entertain a CBA with an athletes' union. It would severely hamstring the P5 for one. Think about it—one athlete, one vote. There is clearly a huge majority of non-P5 athletes. In a CBA there's going to be talk about equitable revenue sharing across the board. What happens to the gobs of money that go to P5 schools? It gets sucked up by EVERYONE! Whoops... there goes the revenue stream. Do you think the power of the P5 will hold fast against such a threat? If you like the way things are now then you had better hope so. Almost certainly the NCAA will break into smaller fiefdoms. The Big 10 (20 or 30 or 40) would become the "big league" and everyone else would be an afterthought. Gah—that would SUCK ROYALLY!

I hope the judge or judges consider the calamity to college sports that would ensue if the NCAA lost its anti-trust exemption. In my opinion, just stay clear of this road. I hope the NCAA can.

 

[Pablo]

NCAA: Multiple-transfer athletes can play amid suit

Athletes who have transferred multiple times can compete next fall if they meet conditions while a lawsuit continues against the NCAA, the organization said Wednesday.

www.espn.com

"On Wednesday, the NCAA said while it is not certain whether the preliminary injunction issued by the judge will remain in place during the 2024-25 season, athletes who transfer again during or after the current academic year won't be subject to the requirement that they sit out one year. However, transfer window notification rules must be followed.

The transfer window for men's and women's basketball runs from March 18 to May 1.

The NCAA also said athletes would 'continue to be subject to all other existing eligibility legislation and to any eligibility standards required for competition that may be developed or modified for the 2024-25 academic year.'

The lawsuit is scheduled for a jury trial in June 2025 in Wheeling, West Virginia."

 

[GMUSSTN]

If this makes it to SCOTUS in any form then bye-bye Title IX anyway...the majority would love to toss that one out the window.

Schools need the ability to pay players directly, and I think that's the best case scenario for avoiding the free-for-all that would come with keeping NIL in the driver's seat. Heck, if this Key stuff is true, what's to stop a team from poaching a player mid-season? Or before a tournament game? There's nothing baring, say, Alabama from dumping a truckload of cash and a roster spot for next season on a mid-major standout player who is set to face them in an upcoming game. Might not work every time, but everything has a price, and when you're 19 years old that price is peanuts to an atheltic funding behemoth from a P6 conference.

But since we live in the worst timeline, I don't think anything good will actually happen. The NCAA has the power of a wet fart when it comes to actually enforcing anything it might prescribe. The B1G and SEC are jockeying for a system where their schools are the only ones that can make money...and how long before they take a look at themselves and realize they could just join forces and wipe everyone else out while telling the NCAA to go pound sand?

Instead of just letting the schools pay players, I envision a system where for-profit LLCs are "affiliated" with major schools' athletic departments can issue contracts and lock up talent. Smaller schools like Mason will just become feeder teams for the real money. You could curb this by letting schools pay players as employees, letting the players collectively bargain for their salaries, and then still letting them profit on NIL but as suplemental to their main job with the school.

One of those solutions makes sense and would keep things relatively normal in terms of how the actually games are played and what the fans are rooting for, but do you really think the people behind the money are going to let that happen?

 

[gmubrian]

If this makes it to SCOTUS in any form then bye-bye Title IX anyway...the majority would love to toss that one out the window.

Schools need the ability to pay players directly, and I think that's the best case scenario for avoiding the free-for-all that would come with keeping NIL in the driver's seat. Heck, if this Key stuff is true, what's to stop a team from poaching a player mid-season? Or before a tournament game? There's nothing baring, say, Alabama from dumping a truckload of cash and a roster spot for next season on a mid-major standout player who is set to face them in an upcoming game. Might not work every time, but everything has a price, and when you're 19 years old that price is peanuts to an atheltic funding behemoth from a P6 conference.

But since we live in the worst timeline, I don't think anything good will actually happen. The NCAA has the power of a wet fart when it comes to actually enforcing anything it might prescribe. The B1G and SEC are jockeying for a system where their schools are the only ones that can make money...and how long before they take a look at themselves and realize they could just join forces and wipe everyone else out while telling the NCAA to go pound sand?

Instead of just letting the schools pay players, I envision a system where for-profit LLCs are "affiliated" with major schools' athletic departments can issue contracts and lock up talent. Smaller schools like Mason will just become feeder teams for the real money. You could curb this by letting schools pay players as employees, letting the players collectively bargain for their salaries, and then still letting them profit on NIL but as suplemental to their main job with the school.

One of those solutions makes sense and would keep things relatively normal in terms of how the actually games are played and what the fans are rooting for, but do you really think the people behind the money are going to let that happen?

This not what happened with KH.

I have already addressed why it really makes no sense to pay someone prior to them enrolling in your school because the money could just walk away because you can’t force the player to come to your school. Signing a contract ahead of time would also be risky since l believe most schools require them to be reported.

Before we argue for solutions, let’s make sure that the problem people think exists actually does.

 

[GSII]

It sucks that schools gave an inch and players took a mile. Im all for players earning NIL. Problem is, none are earning it. It's just an auction.

SEC churches are reporting lower stewardship money is coming in bc families are giving to a new religion. College football.

 

[GMU79]

It sucks that schools gave an inch and players took a mile. Im all for players earning NIL. Problem is, none are earning it. It's just an auction.

SEC churches are reporting lower stewardship money is coming in bc families are giving to a new religion. College football.

Wow! Do you have a source for that?

 

[GMUSSTN]

This not what happened with KH.

I have already addressed why it really makes no sense to pay someone prior to them enrolling in your school because the money could just walk away because you can’t force the player to come to your school. Signing a contract ahead of time would also be risky since l believe most schools require them to be reported.

Before we argue for solutions, let’s make sure that the problem people think exists actually does.

Eh my whole post was conjecture...more of a "let's ride this slippery slope and see where it could lead." It's a working theory on where college athletics for money sports is heading. If the NCAA keeps getting slapped by the courts then this free-for-all will start influencing actual games. It's a very slippery slope, and I'm riding my straw man to the bottom!

 

[GSII]

Wow! Do you have a source for that?

Not allowed to talk religion here.

 

[Old Man]

Not allowed to talk religion here.

To be fair, we have talked about college football from time to time and the SEC. So there must be some exceptions.

 

[KAOriginal]

So...maybe I missed this somewhere in all this....

If the players become employees with collective bargaining power, pay, etc.....

then it seems the need for free scholarships should be thrown out the window. No need for grades or classes.

They are just employees like the janitor. Also subject to dismissal for under performance.

Example player x is an employee and makes $100k in NIL. Then there is absolutely no need for the free scholarship. Much less any other academic.pursuit.

Pay your own way....save the scholarship for students who actually need it.

 

[Jack Strop]

To be fair, we have talked about college football from time to time and the SEC. So there must be some exceptions.

I know as a FACT that in SEC country Football = Religion.

 

[GMU_Polevaulter]

So...maybe I missed this somewhere in all this....

If the players become employees with collective bargaining power, pay, etc.....

then it seems the need for free scholarships should be thrown out the window. No need for grades or classes.

They are just employees like the janitor. Also subject to dismissal for under performance.

Example player x is an employee and makes $100k in NIL. Then there is absolutely no need for the free scholarship. Much less any other academic.pursuit.

Pay your own way....save the scholarship for students who actually need it.

Good Point - Plus - gotta be hard to get a degree if you are 3 different colleges in 4 years.....
2x transfer definitely will hurt graduation rates.

 

[Falco]

So...maybe I missed this somewhere in all this....

If the players become employees with collective bargaining power, pay, etc.....

then it seems the need for free scholarships should be thrown out the window. No need for grades or classes.

They are just employees like the janitor. Also subject to dismissal for under performance.

Example player x is an employee and makes $100k in NIL. Then there is absolutely no need for the free scholarship. Much less any other academic.pursuit.

Pay your own way....save the scholarship for students who actually need it.

I’ve been having similar thoughts. But I’m fearful schools like duke will still utilize 13 scholarship players and the rest will be walk ons with huge nil deals.

 

[Old Man]

I’ve been having similar thoughts. But I’m fearful schools like duke will still utilize 13 scholarship players and the rest will be walk ons with huge nil deals.

True, but at some point the players have to realize there are only 200 minutes available in a game. If I'm a basketball player 'good enough' to be recruited to, and wear the Duke jersey, I'm going to want to play, no matter the NIL deal. My point is, all* these players have visions of playing in the NBA, and they definitely aren't getting there riding the pine for $100k+/year where they also have to pay their tuition. Also, the boosters, at least those boosters not completely vindictive to their conference rivals, will eventually get tired of paying for players to sit on the bench. There's only so much patience for a player you can't use.

*I get that not ALL players have visions of grandeur and some players are smart enough to use the opportunity to get a good education and that will be their path in life, not basketball. But that's not most!

 

[bravesfan]

I’ve been having similar thoughts. But I’m fearful schools like duke will still utilize 13 scholarship players and the rest will be walk ons with huge nil deals.

Would be hilarious if the 5-star recruits were "walk-ons" with huge NIL deals and then the scholarship players are the 3.0+ GPA folks that keep APR up to remain compliant.

 

[jessej]

Would be hilarious if the 5-star recruits were "walk-ons" with huge NIL deals and then the scholarship players are the 3.0+ GPA folks that keep APR up to remain compliant.

At schools like Kentucky they will be 4.0 GPA students