Article on Mason's Inaugural A10 Season

GMUgemini

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I'll answer your question, hopefully you will actually answer mine.

There is little difference, I would cut them all if I could.

You were the one lecturing about the mission of the university and why we need the extra sports. So please, what lofty goal of the university is men's golf serving that could not be served in a much more coat effective manner in some other way, thus benefitting more students?

I already told you. As an intercollegiate athlete, you learn things from the shared discipline, sacrifice and dedication you don't learn in a classroom. Most universities believe in educating the students outside of the classroom as well, providing experiences they wouldn't have at a for-profit school like Strayer or Kaplan -- it's why you have Athletics Departments and Student Affairs, and SGA, and Greek Life, and study abroad programs, none of which are revenue generating or cost effective.

I mean, why have a radio station, a TV station, a newspaper, intramural sports, free concerts, spring and fall festivals, provide space on campus for things like the Black Student Union and the Gay-Straight Alliance, host events like Fall for the Book (those writers get paid by the university to come, they don't just come for free), and do why we have things like the Performing Arts Center and offer free movies on campus? Because it's about providing a diverse student experience, and attracting a diverse student body.

I'm not sure what you are talking about with more cost effective programs either. Athletics funding and academic funding are two completely different things. If you cut $5 million from athletics, it's either going right back into the student's pockets via a reduction in student fees (highly unlikely), or it's going to go into the remaining 14 sports (much more likely, and actually reduces the number of students impacted). JMU is a prime example of this. No matter how much they said, "we aren't cutting these sports to give more money to football, everyone knew that's exactly what they were doing."

So my guess is you don't think our basketball team has the money it needs to be successful and they need more of it. To that, I would say our recruiting budget is higher than vcu's and they still outrecruit the crap out of us.

And here's another thing to think about, would some of our athletics facilities be as nice as they are without those programs to support them? The Aquatics and Fitness Center and RAC specifically -- why spent $24 million renovating the RAC if we didn't have mens and womens volleyball and wrestling and all it was there for was for was some PE classes?
 

wijg

Starter
You just don't get it. I guess you are OK with with students that are struggling to make ends meet subsidizing (through the student fees) the education of a few golfers (who are most likely not in need of subsidies) just so those golfers can get those extra little benefits you suggest above. Yes, that could be done in a much more cost effective way with non-scholarship sports, intramural sports, or many other programs. It is clear you are for spending money unwisely as long as it meets your agenda. It must be nice to be generous with other people's money.

At least with the basketball team there is a chance the expenditures will pay off through marketing the university, returning some of the money through generated revenue or entertaining a significant portion of the student population in return for their student fees. No other sport at Mason does that.
 

GMUgemini

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You just don't get it. I guess you are OK with with students that are struggling to make ends meet subsidizing (through the student fees) the education of a few golfers (who are most likely not in need of subsidies) just so those golfers can get those extra little benefits you suggest above. Yes, that could be done in a much more cost effective way with non-scholarship sports, intramural sports, or many other programs. It is clear you are for spending money unwisely as long as it meets your agenda. It must be nice to be generous with other people's money.

At least with the basketball team there is a chance the expenditures will pay off through marketing the university, returning some of the money through generated revenue or entertaining a significant portion of the student population in return for their student fees. No other sport at Mason does that.

No, I have no problem paying the fees to subsidize other students' experiences. My tuition and fees subsidize a whole host of activities and services I will never use, and that would include expanding intramural sports -- we offer over 35 intramural sports, including things like underwater hockey, ultimate frisbee and quidditch, so I'm not sure what we've missing there.

If the basketball team was as hot of a commodity as you think it is we wouldn't need student fees at all. As it stands, our student fees are less than half of ODU's or JMU's and over $250 less than vcu's. So I'm not really sure where your gripe is. As I've said before, you can cut 8 sports all you want, the student fees aren't being lowered ever, and those student fees aren't going to go towards academic programs or student affairs, that's just not how it works.

So you have two choices. One, you either give the same money to support fewer sports and fewer athletes; or two, you maintain the status quo and try to market the non-revenue sports more. There are plenty of schools who manage to market their wrestling, men's and women's volleyball, soccer, lacrosse, baseball, and even gynmastics teams. Will any of these teams generate significant revenue for the university? No. But they could become self-sufficient.

The good news is our president is committed to not raising student fees, so that should make you happy. And the biggest cost driver right now is the continued diminishing support from the state legislature to the state university systems (W&M is practically a private school at this point, and I believe we are down to almost 30% state funded and it's lowering every year), not a our athletic and activities fees.
 

GMUgemini

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I could be completely off base on this, but I don't believe student fees cover the cost of tuition for student athletes.

That's a bit of an opaque process how the university charges off scholarships. But we do currently have 26 athletic scholarships endowed. The sooner we get them all endowed the better.
 

Five Two

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While it is a nice idea that any team we have do well, and I don't mean to take anything away from those teams, but how much of this is a drop in the level of competition in non-basketball sports?
Outside of hoops, traditionally, the CAA is a better conference in pretty much every sport.
 
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