299 Days of English

[TweederGMU]

By year 3 we need to be dancing. Plain and Simple

 

[He15man]

By year 3 we need to be dancing. Plain and Simple

I agree with that. That’s totally realistic to me from both a coaching/system implementation POV, and a recruiting POV. We’ve already seen an uptick in the quality of freshman KE pulled to fairfax. And the portal is going to remain the Wild West for years, so he’ll undoubtably exploit the hell out of that. So I see nothing wrong with year two or three expectations, and specially in a multiple bid league like the A10.

 

[GMU79]

I agree with that. That’s totally realistic to me from both a coaching/system implementation POV, and a recruiting POV. We’ve already seen an uptick in the quality of freshman KE pulled to fairfax. And the portal is going to remain the Wild West for years, so he’ll undoubtably exploit the hell out of that. So I see nothing wrong with year two or three expectations, and specially in a multiple bid league like the A10.

And I don't think KE is planning on settling for anything less either.

 

[Quentin Daniels]

So I see nothing wrong with year two or three expectations, and specially in a multiple bid league like the A10.

So essentially, a top two finish needed in year two.

NCAA Tournament Year​	A-10 NCAA Bids​
2021​	2​
2020​	n/a​
2019​	2​
2018​	1​
2017​	3​

​

In his second year as a head coach. Ever.
Taking over a team that finished 6th, with 7-of-8 conference wins against teams in the bottom four.
And proceeded to lose 60% of its minutes and 70% of its scoring.

You see nothing wrong with that expectation, leap-frogging St. Bonaventure, vcu, Davidson, St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond, and Rhode Island in year two.

Some of you seem to think the other A-10 teams are going to stop giving out scholarships too.

 

[GMU79]

So essentially, a top two finish needed in year two.

NCAA Tournament Year​	A-10 NCAA Bids​
2021​	2​
2020​	n/a​
2019​	2​
2018​	1​
2017​	3​

​

In his second year as a head coach. Ever.
Taking over a team that finished 6th, with 7-of-8 conference wins against teams in the bottom four.
And proceeded to lose 60% of its minutes and 70% of its scoring.

You see nothing wrong with that expectation, leap-frogging St. Bonaventure, vcu, Davidson, St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond, and Rhode Island in year two.

He said year 3, but I get your point. Tough task. But KE has high expectations. They're rubbing off. And I hope they are realized.

 

[Quentin Daniels]

I literally quoted from his post where he wrote "year two or three."

 

[GMU79]

I literally quoted from his post where he wrote "year two or three."

Oops, you're right. It was TweederGMU who said year three. My bad.

 

[sleeperpick]

So essentially, a top two finish needed in year two.

NCAA Tournament Year​	A-10 NCAA Bids​
2021​	2​
2020​	n/a​
2019​	2​
2018​	1​
2017​	3​

​

In his second year as a head coach. Ever.
Taking over a team that finished 6th, with 7-of-8 conference wins against teams in the bottom four.
And proceeded to lose 60% of its minutes and 70% of its scoring.

You see nothing wrong with that expectation, leap-frogging St. Bonaventure, vcu, Davidson, St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond, and Rhode Island in year two.

Some of you seem to think the other A-10 teams are going to stop giving out scholarships too.

Agree with your overall point but I definitely think we can leap from Richmond Rhode Island and Davidson in year 2

 

[He15man]

So essentially, a top two finish needed in year two.

NCAA Tournament Year​	A-10 NCAA Bids​
2021​	2​
2020​	n/a​
2019​	2​
2018​	1​
2017​	3​

​

In his second year as a head coach. Ever.
Taking over a team that finished 6th, with 7-of-8 conference wins against teams in the bottom four.
And proceeded to lose 60% of its minutes and 70% of its scoring.

You see nothing wrong with that expectation, leap-frogging St. Bonaventure, vcu, Davidson, St. Louis, Dayton, Richmond, and Rhode Island in year two.

Some of you seem to think the other A-10 teams are going to stop giving out scholarships too.

I DID say two or 3 years while agreeing within Tweeders initial comment. But we can leave it at two for the sake of this convo .... just a point of reference though, your numbers here aren't EXACTLY accurate... It has only been the last couple tournaments that the A10 has only sent two teams. Prior to that that there were at least 3 on a pretty regular basis... and has high as 6 in 2014. I took a scrrenshot of the last ten years below. The NCAA column show how many teams the A10 sent that season.

So no, I don't see an NCAA berth in his second year being unreasonable for KE to accomplish at all.... because I don't see this as a two-horse race. All the teams you call out will be relevant, no doubt. But I think anyone would be crazy to think we'll struggle to contend with them since we have A) improved the talent on our roster; and B) will have a more competent/creative coaching staff establishing our style. You also have to factor in the fact KE is bound to improve the quality of opponent we're facing. That's how you get automatic bids without having to rely on an A10 tournament win - strength of schedule and quality wins.

 

[Quentin Daniels]

So not focusing on the last five years, but the five years previous. And earlier, when it was a 16-team league with Butler, Temple, Xavier and Charlotte.

And no ramp up time. Top 3 by year 3 at least and an at-large bid. Based on future strengths of schedule and coaching style for a group that's yet to coach a single game together. That's "totally realistic" to you.

OK.

 

[Quentin Daniels]

Agree with your overall point but I definitely think we can leap from Richmond Rhode Island and Davidson in year 2

Me too. Or 2-3 other programs in case they have one of those really solid years where everything comes together.

But this standard of tournament bid or bust as the standard by years 2 or 3 is just foolish.

 

[Masonfan3]

All of the hype and reaching out to former players from CKE doesn't appear to be working when it comes to Alumni donations. The Alumni Athlete Giving Challenge ends today and only 7% of the basketball Alumni have donated with an increase of 0% from last year...I am not that surprised though as they are usually towards the bottom when it comes to Alumni Athlete donations. Not sure what else can be done to get them to open up their pocket books...

 

[He15man]

You act like it's unusual for teams to make huge strides in short periods of time. I'm not asking or expecting English to cure cancer or build a rocket and put us on Mars. He's coaching a basketball team, and anyone who's played team sports at ANY level knows how big it is to have a head coach that's not only bright, but inspiring/influential. KE seems to be just that from what little we've seen. Plus, it's not like we have coaches who are new to the game - they've coached and played on levels FAR beyond what we're talking about here at the A10 level. So again, no... I don't think it's "unreasonable" to think he could have us dancing in year 2.

Heck... I'll just point to our 2006 Final Four team as an example of a team that can make HUGE strides in a very short period of time. Why? Because the previous year they were a 16-13 team - and that's when Lamar, Jai, and Tony were Juniors. It's not like we had no good upper classmen. The following year, they from practically .500 to "giant killers." ... And to just bring this full circle, I'm not even expecting that from Kim. All I'm saying is that it's realistic that he (considering his background and pedigree, along with the reps of his assistants) could just have us IN the NCAA tournament by then.

 

[Patriotsince81]

Amazing turnarounds occur every year in athletics at all levels. I randomly chose the 09-10 to 10-11 seasons and discovered the following.

From the 2009 - 2010 to the 2010-11 season the following teams showed dramatic improvement.

Florida Atlantic went from 6th to 1st in their league.
Chatanooga went from 8th to 1st.
Evansville went from 10th to 5th.
JMU went from 11th to 5th.
Alabama went from 8th to 1st.
Santa Clara went from 6th to 2nd.
Duquesne went from 8th to 1st.
Penn St. went from 11th to 4th.
Nebraska went from 12th to 5th.

The culture change alone may net us additional wins. I think the players we gained will be better than the players we lost. DP was boringly predictable on all counts. We were easy to defend against. A new system may also pay benefits in terms of wins or losses.

So, I choose to be optimistic about KE and what the future holds. I am hopeful for the first time in years. For now, that's good enough for me. We may have growing pains and falter, we may be middle of the pack, we may show tremendous gains, hell we may dance. All I know is I'm looking forward to the ride and hoping for the best. I'm promising myself to TRY to not get too high or too low this coming season. Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[He15man]

So, I choose to be optimistic about KE and what the future holds. I am hopeful for the first time in years. For now, that's good enough for me. We may have growing pains and falter, we may be middle of the pack, we may show tremendous gains, hell we may dance. All I know is I'm looking forward to the ride and hoping for the best. I'm promising myself to TRY to not get too high or too low this coming season. Yeah, good luck with that.

Absolutely, 1000% agree with this sentiment. I obviously don't mind if people disagree with my opinion on the possibilities for significant Year 2 success. It's understandable, really. But I also find myself INCREDIBLY enthusiastic about a Mason basketball coaching hire for the first time in decades and it shows in my optimism. But I should ALSO state that while I'm saying I could see him having this team dancing in Year 2, I'm definitely not going to call him a bust if he doesn't! I'll take any form of improvement. But he's definitely got the potential to move some mountain, in my humble opinion.

 

[tblack33]

I'm a fan of tempering expectations in this case as well, and am really looking for results by year 4-5, but generally speaking top 3 in the A10 will at least put you in the discussion for an at large more years than not. Who wouldn't kill to see that dumbass shooting star logo in the last 4 in graphic that plays on a loop on ESPN?

 

[GMU79]

I'm a fan of tempering expectations in this case as well, and am really looking for results by year 4-5, but generally speaking top 3 in the A10 will at least put you in the discussion for an at large more years than not. Who wouldn't kill to see that dumbass shooting star logo in the last 4 in graphic that plays on a loop on ESPN?

Or a new logo altogether!!

 

[Quentin Daniels]

You act like it's unusual for teams to make huge strides in short periods of time.

Because it is. It's called Math.

For every team that wins, there's one that loses. For every big jump forward, there's a team taking a big jump back, and a majority in between that are making more marginal changes.

I'm not asking or expecting English to cure cancer or build a rocket and put us on Mars.

Oh you're not? OK, thanks for clarifying.

Plus, it's not like we have coaches who are new to the game - they've coached and played on levels FAR beyond what we're talking about here at the A10 level.

Great point! That's definitely something other programs will lack, coaches that coached and played at higher levels.

Heck... I'll just point to our 2006 Final Four team as an example of a team that can make HUGE strides in a very short period of time.

You'll just point to the once-in-a-lifetime team as your example? The one that had no Seniors and brought everyone back, including three all-conference players that had played together for three years and three more on the all rookie team.

Heck, Great example! Because, that team and this one are mirror images. Nobody saw the '06 team making a leap.

And the coaching staffs are similar too. Larranaga was practically a rookie head coach himself, except for, you know, that two decades of prior head coaching experience. And having a lead Asst. like Courtney who'd been on his staff for a decade is no different than hiring someone new that you've never worked with.

All I'm saying is that it's realistic that he (considering his background and pedigree, along with the reps of his assistants) could just have us IN the NCAA tournament by then.

Mmmmmm......moving those goal posts here a bit, aren't you?

 

[Quentin Daniels]

Amazing turnarounds occur every year in athletics at all levels. I randomly chose the 09-10 to 10-11 seasons and discovered the following.

From the 2009 - 2010 to the 2010-11 season the following teams showed dramatic improvement.

Florida Atlantic went from 6th to 1st in their league.
Chatanooga went from 8th to 1st.
Evansville went from 10th to 5th.
JMU went from 11th to 5th.
Alabama went from 8th to 1st.
Santa Clara went from 6th to 2nd.
Duquesne went from 8th to 1st.
Penn St. went from 11th to 4th.
Nebraska went from 12th to 5th.

OK, cool. There's 353 Div. 1 basketball programs. How many went from 6th or worse to an NCAA tournament berth in 2 years with a rookie head coach and roster that almost completely turned over?

And let's be honest, 6th was a pretty fake finish considering nearly all the wins came against bottom 4 programs and we got swept by the teams directly beneath us.

Here's this years tournament teams though. Show me the ones coached by second and third year rookie coaches that turned about their programs.

1. Gonzaga	18. Villanova	35. Wisconsin	52. North Texas
2. Baylor	19. Tennessee	36. Maryland	53. Liberty
3. Illinois	20. Colorado	37. St. Bonaventure	54. UNC Greensboro
4. Michigan	21. Southern California	38. Virginia Tech	55. Abilene Christian
5. Alabama	22. Texas Tech	39. vcu	56. Morehead St.
6. Ohio St.	23. BYU	40. Rutgers	57. Colgate
7. Iowa	24. San Diego St.	41. Syracuse	58. Eastern Washington
8. Houston	25. Oregon	42. Utah St.	59. Grand Canyon
9. Arkansas	26. UConn	43. Michigan St.	60. Cleveland St.
10. West Virginia	27. Clemson	44. UCLA	61. Oral Roberts
11. Texas	28. Florida	45. Wichita St.	62. Iona
12. Kansas	29. LSU	46. Oregon St.	63. Drexel
13. Florida St.	30. Loyola Chicago	47. Georgetown	64. Hartford
14. Purdue	31. North Carolina	48. Drake	65. Mount St. Mary’s
15. Oklahoma St.	32. Oklahoma	49. Winthrop	66. Texas Southern
16. Virginia	33. Missouri	50. UC Santa Barbara	67. Norfolk St.
17. Creighton	34. Georgia Tech	51. Ohio	68. Appalachian St.

 

[He15man]

Because it is. It's called Math.

For every team that wins, there's one that loses. For every big jump forward, there's a team taking a big jump back, and a majority in between that are making more marginal changes.

Oh you're not? OK, thanks for clarifying.

Great point! That's definitely something other programs will lack, coaches that coached and played at higher levels.

You'll just point to the once-in-a-lifetime team as your example? The one that had no Seniors and brought everyone back, including three all-conference players that had played together for three years and three more on the all rookie team.

Heck, Great example! Because, that team and this one are mirror images. Nobody saw the '06 team making a leap.

And the coaching staffs are similar too. Larranaga was practically a rookie head coach himself, except for, you know, that two decades of prior head coaching experience. And having a lead Asst. like Courtney who'd been on his staff for a decade is no different than hiring someone new that you've never worked with.

Mmmmmm......moving those goal posts here a bit, aren't you?

LOL... dude, do you need a hug or something? I can't believe you're getting this worked up over an opinion. But okay... to retort... whether you like it or not, it's not unusual for teams to make massive improvements in short periods of time. You can blast the example i gave off the top of my head without doing more than 10 seconds of research, but his post above proves as much. it is hardly shocking to see a team go from 6th to 1st or 2nd in the span of a year. ... And where in the world did I make a direct comparison between Kim and Coach L? I said Kim and this staff have played and coached at higher levels than the A10, and they have good pedigree .... where am I wrong?

And who's moving goalposts? I've said the same thing in like 3 consecutive posts....